vmw

jb101
1. If that is the worst case that you can find to accuse Cakewalk of "skulduggery", then it proves my point.

 
 
READ what I wrote "...While that is not skulduggery.....
Calm down and comprehend what is written by people.
I assume the majority of us are going to continue using Sonar - all people are doing in non help requests are expressing concerns, impressions, attitudes - the pros and cons. This forum is gold to cake, marketing and their ultimate owners.

 
 
My apologies.  You did not accuse Cakewalk of skulduggery, but of being "economical with the truth".  I did not mean to imply otherwise.  My mistake.
 
Still, this makes my point even more clearly.
 

vmw
 

jb101
2.  How do you think Cakewalk profits from this heinous "skulduggery"?  That money does not profit Cakewalk at all, but is passed on to pay for the licence for the MP encoder.

 
 
READ the my last comment in this post and tell me how this license works when you can continue to unlock the MP3 encoder - perhaps that is a lifetime license.
 

 
 
Indeed it is, AFAIK
 
I notice that you did not respond to any of my other comments, such as how this "economy with the truth" would benefit Cakewalk, etc.
 
 Nuff said.
 
I have no beef with you, or of people  "expressing concerns, impressions, attitudes - the pros and cons".
 
I do dislike misinterpretation and misinformation.
 
My apologies if I have been guilty of either.
 
edited to add paragraphs

vmw

jb101
1. If that is the worst case that you can find to accuse Cakewalk of "skulduggery", then it proves my point.

 
 
READ what I wrote "...While that is not skulduggery.....
Calm down and comprehend what is written by people.
 

 
 
Oh, and I am calm.
 
I am not sure how my post read otherwise - the joys of text only communication.
 
You have to love the t'interweb..
 

jb101My apologies

 
Accepted and appreciated; but there was no need to apologise we were both coming from two different directions.
C'est la vie, fellow Sonar user.

is this offer tranferable,when upgrading your computer.

lfm

Brian Walton
You are completely overlooking the need for any software company to gain new users, not just old ones. 

 
There is nothing like:
a) features(that you really need now)
b) reliability
c) maintenance
d) listen to user feedback(features you want eventually)
e) affordable
that sells a product.
 
When I eventually tested FL Studio they did not have the features part - so no purchase.
I did not care one bit that lifetime updates of something that is not doing the job to start with.
It's enough that one of those rules do not apply to a product/vendor.
 
Even Avid with ProTools thinking they had the market in their palm had to eventually fold to these rules. For a year they thought they could dictate anything - and everybody would have to pay for life.
Not until report after report showed dropping results and stock dropped from $18->$8 were they reacting.
 
Today, not even ProTools is out of pricerange for most people - just about what Platinum costs.
It used to be different.
 

 
Sonar has a long history of rolling out things either before or at the same time as others.  They still plan on monthly updates, so they are clearly focused on remaining relevant.  And sonar offering lifetime updates is clearly a move to get new users and new users are going to be looking for solid/tested and cutting edge.  

History so far has shown very little, if anything at all, of what is top voted on Features & Ideas forum is ever implemented.
 
So why have lifetime updates of something that is never going to implement things that you want down the line.
 
But 2015 was spectacular with Sonar updates, no doubt.
But was anything from topvoted user requests implemented - not that I saw.
 
Maybe my reasoning is different from most and Sonar4Life will be a hit, even in the long run.
I'm sure it's a hit right now just introduced.
And those that sought after a Mac version probably buckle up for life too.
 
Rule d) is what worries me about Sonar....every time topvoted feature request come up for discussion, it's in complete denial from Cakewalk these are fair requests....or doable...or any excuse they can find.
 
So since I'm not signed up for life - my wallet is closed - screaming a statement of discontent.

I don't agree with everything your saying.
I do think you make a valid point about users requests. I would like to see more.
but with that being said, a lot of users wanted color changes and cakewalk delivered.
 
so they are listening. they are doing a lot of things right IMO.
the updates have been great this past year. it does appear they fixed a lot of outstanding annoyances in these past few updates. (that often gets over looked) it made Sonar a more stable product.
 
I can honestly say when the X series began, I loved the concept, I loved the look, I loved the ideas.
but was it stable for me ? somewhat. yes I had great productivity but I also had lumps in my cereal that were glissing me off. a crash required a total reboot..or I could wait 15 minutes for my driver to be released by sonar.
those things got under my skin. but now, I can say I haven't had a crash in weeks...maybe months.
(I believe it was Easter of this year.) and that crash took me 0 minutes to recover from. I simply shut sonar down and restarted it up like nothing happen.
those are the things that get over looked. Sonar has become a much, much, much more stable product.
but that's also expected with a good DAW.
 
the updates are great, but I need something that's going to work and work like a tank during a long session.
I did 4 (8 hour) sessions this past week (only 4 days /Long weekend Holiday :-) and this DAW just ran.
are there still minor annoying things that bother me about sonar ? oh yes there is.
some features that others love, I don't. some things I would love to see, other wouldn't.
so its hard for Cakewalk to please everyone. I believe they generalize and guesstimate what the users want in the rolling updates, but one thing is for sure, they fix bugs. bugs that sometimes go un noticed.
 
I guess what im trying to say is...is there really better out there ?
IMO, in my work habits, workflow, im not sure there is for me.
every other DAW pretty much does the same thing in different ways.
some have more options then others, but they all do the same thing.
 
good luck man.
 

jadonx
is this offer tranferable,when upgrading your computer.

Yes, install SONAR on a new or upgraded machine and the lifetime updates will apply there too.

Hi
 It appears that my price to upgrade will be the same as general public. At least according to the new add.
What's up with that?
MJ

I see there is mention of listening to users - well forever I have along with others asked for a real staff/score view and it usually starts a debate "It's a DAW" so doesn't need one. I suspect a lot in the no score camp either don't read music, work with loops or construction kits - there is nothing wrong with that method and please don't take it as some judgemental statement.

However, the so called "industry standard DAW" Protools has Sibelius Score Editor integrated into the 2 top versions (based on Avid advertising). This in itself should demonstrate Avid considers a score/staff editor as important. I am aware that they own Sibelius, which probably makes it easier to add a better staff view.

For the first time Protools has peaked my interest as a viable alternative to Sonar. Not that I am giving up on cake; but I hope they see there is a need to make more than a token effort every now and again to arrange the tools on the staff view. Mr Anderton may say they have made changes to the staff view; but it is a bit like painting a bedroom, sure you made a change but it is still the same room.

lfm
History so far has shown very little, if anything at all, of what is top voted on Features & Ideas forum is ever implemented.
 
So why have lifetime updates of something that is never going to implement things that you want down the line.

 
Please remember the multitude of forum requests along the lines of "I don't want new features, I want stability, I want faster operation, and I want fixes." Regardless, while Cakewalk has been taking care of those requests from people, they've also delivered many requested features:
 

• Softube Console 1 support - requested
• Upsampling - requested
• New themes - requested
• Theme editor - requested
• All of the future enhancements like plug-in load balancing, ripple editing, and comping enhancements - requested
• Update to TH3 - requested
• More track color choices - requested
• Melodyne tempo detection - not requested specifically, but the functionality was
• Smart Solo - requested functionality
• Speed improvements and optimizations - requested
• Patch points - requested
• Synth recording - requested 
• Relative video path - requested
• Drum Replacer - requested
• Better mastering tools - requested
• Use same solo and muting on drum maps as instrument tracks - requested
• MIDI engine changes to avoid stuck notes - requested
• Customizable control bar - requested
• The many, many fixes that were based on user requests - requested

 
...as well as features like Mix Recall which may not have specifically been requested, but have ended up being very popular. So I think history has shown that Cakewalk listens to its users. However, I think it also shows that users give less credit when Cakewalk implements what is asked for by a majority of users in multiple places if it doesn't align with their personal priorities. That's just human nature.
 
Also, please remember that there was a backlog of fixes that needed to be made. IIRC the Features and Ideas forum is less than two years old. As just one example, it took over a year to do the Drum Replacer. I don't think Cakewalk introduced Features and Ideas as a way for people to benchmark "See?!? It's been several months and Cakewalk hasn't implemented what I asked for!!" but to collect and then prioritize ideas for future roadmaps, which are becoming more relevant now as backlogs of long-standing fixes and enhancements are being targeted and in the process of being dispatched.
 
People still harp on things like "Well EVERYONE wants better notation! Therefore Cakewalk isn't listening!" First, not everyone (by a long shot) wants better notation, and the user surveys - which are statistically far more valid than cursory analysis of forum posts - bear that out. But second, and much more importantly, Cakewalk is always open to solutions for better notation capabilities. Just because they haven't found something suitable yet doesn't mean that they've stopped looking. Remember, it was said unequivocally in these forums that there would never be any fixes to staff view and that it was a dead issue to Cakewalk. Obviously the first was not true and I can tell you that the second one is not true either. But the company is going to wait until any staff view improvements can be done right, not cause the price to balloon, and cause minimal disruption to the rest of the program and its stability...which is not trivial. Maybe it's doable, maybe not. We'll see. Just because Cakewalk wants to do something doesn't mean they're comfortable with promising, or even hinting, that they will or can.
 
If it's any consolation I'm pushing for improved notation handling so SONAR can earn its rightful place as the DAW of choice in educational institutions. But I don't say they're not listening to me. They're listening. They just haven't found the right solution. I understand.
 

So since I'm not signed up for life - my wallet is closed - screaming a statement of discontent.

 
If Cakewalk's priorities are not in alignment with yours, there are many other options. I say that not in the spirit of "if you don't like it, leave." The only reason I'm using SONAR was because the programs I'd used prior to it were not in alignment with my priorities. I didn't scream a "statement of discontent" in their forums, I switched to SONAR because it was the tool that matched my priorities most closely, and then got on with making music. There are still plenty of people using the programs I used, which is fine with me...and I'm sure with them 
 
Finding the tool that matches my priorities most closely is MY responsibility. It is not Cakewalk's responsibility to create a tool that matches MY priorities. It is their responsibility to strike a balance that will satisfy, and hopefully delight, the majority of SONAR users.
 
The day SONAR doesn't match my priorities more closely than something else, I'll switch from SONAR as easily as I switched to SONAR. 
 
Life is too short not to do whatever it takes for you to be creative, so that you can exercise that creativity. 

Anderton
People still harp on things like "Well EVERYONE wants better notation! Therefore Cakewalk isn't listening!" First, not everyone (by a long shot) wants better notation, and the user surveys - which are statistically far more valid than cursory analysis of forum posts - bear that out. 

Statistics bloody statistics - if I recall correctly all the surveys have been by voluntary participation - therefore can I assume not every user responded. Of those who respond are they weekend warriors or professionals where music is there major source of income? Now I could go on listing a range of questions where the answers could show a particular bias in the results; but that is not important. What is important is how the the questions are asked and how many multiple choice answers there are to select from in response to a neutral question.

A question like "would you recommend Sonar?" - you might like Sonar but there is no caveat like "keep in mind it has low grade notation". Surveys can be notoriously off the mark - just look at election polls around the world and see how many get it wrong.