Question 1: What keyword do I have to enter in the forum search box to get useful hits on "copying and pasting automation envelopes"? Because I get nothing useful on "envelope" or "automation" and I can't believe this hasn't been discussed before.
 
Question 2: Is there a thread on this forum where copying and pasting envelopes - specifically Bus Send Level envelopes, but I'll take what I can get - has been discussed? 'Cause I'd rather go there and add to the existing discussion rather than create a new thread.
 
[UPDATE: the search filter says "last 30 days". I've changed that to "everything, dammit" and it returns more results. For example, THIS THREAD.]
 
Well, here goes:
 
I am re-creating a project and I am attempting to copy an automation envelope from a bus in the old project to a bus in the new project, and no matter what I try, I get a "phantom" envelope that is not respected (I've toggled [R] to see if read-automation is disabled, but no joy).
 
I've tried opening the automation lane in the target project, then pasting in - and the envelope appears in the "main" track lane, leaving the default 0db straight line in the automation lane. No matter what I do, I can't get the pasted envelope to be connected to the actual send level.
 
It's frustrating.
 
SONAR X3e Professional (32-bit on Windows 7 64).

stickman393
I am re-creating a project and I am attempting to copy an automation envelope from a bus in the old project to a bus in the new project, and no matter what I try, I get a "phantom" envelope that is not respected (I've toggled [R] to see if read-automation is disabled, but no joy).
 
I've tried opening the automation lane in the target project, then pasting in - and the envelope appears in the "main" track lane, leaving the default 0db straight line in the automation lane. No matter what I do, I can't get the pasted envelope to be connected to the actual send level.

I'm a little confused because you say you want to copy an automation envelope (Volume, maybe?) from a bus to another bus, but then you mention wanting to connect to the send level, which is a track function. So I'm not sure if you want to:
 
a) Copy an envelope to a like envelope, or
b) Copy an envelope but be able to assign it to something else - e.g., copy the Volume envelope in a bus to a track, where it can serve as a Send Level envelope.
 
We'll deal with a) first. For this example we'll assume you have a Send Level in a track that feeds the Master bus, have a Send Level envelope, and want to copy this bus's Send Level envelope from one project to another. There are several ways to do this, the simplest depends on multiple factors but here's one option. If you don't like it we can try another.
 
1. Set the Edit filter in the track that contains the envelope to the automation you want to copy (in this case, Master Send Level).
2. Click on the track number so that the number's background turns blue, indicating you've selected the entire track.
3. Choose Edit > Copy Special. Check Track/Bus automation and click OK.
4. Put the focus on the new project to which you want to copy the envelope.
5. Click on the track number for the track where you want to paste the envelope in the new project so the track number background turns blue, then place the now time where you want to paste the envelope (presumably the beginning).
6. Choose Edit > Paste Special and click on Advanced. Make sure Track/Bus automation is checked under "What to paste." Click OK to paste the envelope.
 
As to b), after you've pasted the envelope, you can right-click on a node or the line, choose Assign Envelope, and choose a different target.
 
That should do it if I understand correctly what it is you want to do. If I don't, please explain further and we'll figure out something.
 

I've had a problem with pasting envelopes as well, but in my case it was the pasted envelope's timing seeming to be slightly off. I had an envelope automating the send level to a delay return so that I could apply delay only to certain notes at the end of musical phrases. The part was all MIDI and hard quantized, and the part I pasted the envelope to was a carbon copy of the first part. Basically I wanted to apply the same envelope to two instances of the same clip. Only when I pasted the envelope, the timing of it was slightly off by a few milliseconds, which you could hear because it was sending the tail end of unwanted notes to the delay return. I was surprised because everything was supposedly slap bang on the grid. 

stickman393
...What keyword do I have to enter in the forum search box to get useful hits...

 
Forget about the forum search engine and use Google Advanced Search instead.

sharke
I've had a problem with pasting envelopes as well, but in my case it was the pasted envelope's timing seeming to be slightly off. I had an envelope automating the send level to a delay return so that I could apply delay only to certain notes at the end of musical phrases. The part was all MIDI and hard quantized, and the part I pasted the envelope to was a carbon copy of the first part. Basically I wanted to apply the same envelope to two instances of the same clip. Only when I pasted the envelope, the timing of it was slightly off by a few milliseconds, which you could hear because it was sending the tail end of unwanted notes to the delay return. I was surprised because everything was supposedly slap bang on the grid. 

Not wishing to derail the op's topic, but did you have your now time set to 01:01:000 when performing the paste AND copy?
 
I find that C+P with envelopes works perfectly when following these 2 simple rules

@Bristol_Jonesy -
 
>> did you have your now time set to 01:01:000 when performing the paste AND copy?
 
Sort of. Here's the context:  I'm trying to paste automation from bar 103-end into a new project, at position 1. Basically breaking up this big project into smaller independent projects.
So, having highlighted the section of the source envelope, I copy, then go to the destination project and reWind, and paste.
 
Another possible wrinkle - the source project was created and edited in an earlier version of SONAR.. X2 I think but it probably started in 8.5. This is one reason I'm rebuilding the projects in X3, clean.
 
@CraigA -
 
>> I'm a little confused [..] you want to copy an automation envelope (Volume, maybe?) from a bus to another bus, but then you mention wanting to connect to the send level, which is a track function
 
I have a bus that aggregates several instruments. This bus then has a LEVEL SEND to a second Bus with a Reverb FX. I am automating the amount of aggregated signal that gets sent to the reverb bus. This is not unusual, I think? (I'll take the blame for not being clear - It can get tricky to be precise when describing these sorts of problems in words.)
 
Craig, thanks for laying out the process in steps 1-6. That is essentially the process I'm following, with the exception of the "Copy Special/Paste Special". I figured that the Edit Filter had basically replaced the need to do that ... normal copy/paste should operate on the current Edit Filter target, I thought.
 
>> after you've pasted the envelope, you can right-click on a node or the line, choose Assign Envelope, and choose a different target.
 
The annoying thing is that when the envelope shows up in the target project - and it does appear - it does not respond to right-clicking, and I am unable to reassign it.
 
I will take some time today to try and reproduce this problem in a clean set of projects. I'll return with my findings.

stickman393
 
>> after you've pasted the envelope, you can right-click on a node or the line, choose Assign Envelope, and choose a different target.
 
The annoying thing is that when the envelope shows up in the target project - and it does appear - it does not respond to right-clicking, and I am unable to reassign it.

That is not expected behavior. Are you sure the Edit Filter is set correctly? Is the envelope a black line or colored?

@Craig, and all:
 
Here is a write-up of my experience, complete with screen-shots. It should be shared as public.
Please let me know if you can't view it.
 
I reproduced the problem using simple, newly created projects in X1 and X3.
 
 

PARTIALLY SOLVED:
 
I just walked through the steps again. In this case it seems the critical mistake is selecting the Edit Filter to "FX Send Level" prior to attempting the paste operation.
 
If I leave the Edit Filter at "none" in the target project; then select Paste Special, the new envelope goes in; is assigned to FX Send Level; and is respected during playback. There is now only one envelope on the MIX bus.
 
I say "partially solved" because it seems to be that a) there is a bug here in that it was possible to get my project into an unworkable state, and b) why shouldn't the Edit Filter allow me to over-write/replace existing envelopes, regardless of how they got there?
 
 
 

Additional observations:
 
At least in these simple project examples, I can also use normal Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V to copy and paste the envelope between projects:

• select edit filter = FX Send Level in target;
• Ctrl-Copy
• Select target project, with destination bus selected and edit filter = None
• Ctrl-Paste
• Envelope shows up, is respected.

I swear, this was the first thing I tried in my "real" projects where I first encountered the problem... and it didn't work. Hence my attempts to find the "right" sequence of actions.
 
I'm not sure what I can do about my "real" project, which has the two envelopes that can't be deleted... I suspect I will have to re-create the bus from scratch. No big deal.
 
I hope this series of posts helps others on the forum who experience issues with envelope pasting. And remember, guys: Change the search results options from "Last 30 days" to "From the beginning".