• SONAR
  • Best way to mix with Kontact? (p.2)
2016/07/04 02:23:31
sonarman1
Ha its all might look a lot complicated to route and get it right. Specially with kontact than anyother multitimbral vst's. Once you do it its fairly simple . I will tell you what . I have a track template perfectly routed with 8midi tracks and 8 audio tracks. All put together in a folder. I just load it and load any instruments inside kontact and set the output of each instrument. Its all done in a min. If I need only 4 instruments then I just hve to delete OR archieve and hide the other 4 audio and midi tracks  I can send you the synth template. But not sure if it will work just like that.
2016/07/04 04:00:38
Sanderxpander
I think using one instance per instrument is just a simpler way to achieve what I think the OP really wants - individual volume sliders in Sonar. I realize this isn't EXACTLY what he stated but often enough people will get stuck on thinking they need a certain solution when thinking about the problem another way is all that's needed. Happens to me all the time, at least.
2016/07/04 08:35:09
Thedoccal
Bob I'm going to try your method next time I open and use Kontakt.  I get what you are saying and think you are onto something there.  Multis can contain many layers, and I thought I had to mix them all in Kontakt, but each multi layer can be routed to Sonar in it's own track.  Brilliant.
2016/07/04 10:25:09
robert_e_bone
There are indeed usually multiple ways to accomplish things in Sonar, and life in general, so my vote is to do what works for the person at the controls.
 
I too sometimes will reuse a Kontakt multi-instrument instance, and just swap out the instruments, but really I most of the time just create a new instance with exactly what I am looking to use, each time.
 
Setting one of these up is really harder to type up in a post than it is to actually build, particularly once you have done it a handful of times.  In steps, you are essentially only doing the following:
 
1.  Insert an instance of Kontakt (I usually pick the dll with the 16 outputs)
2.  Load up the desired instruments for that instance
3.  Click on the Batch Function in the Output Section that clears out the audio channels and creates a new audio output channel for each loaded instrument.  (It does it all for you)
 
The 3 simple steps above are all you need to do to set up the Kontakt instance.  I happen to also take a minute to rename each output channel to something shorter like: Piano, Bass, Violin, Piano.  THAT is not required - I just like it for readability.
 
Once the Kontakt instance is loaded, I do the following handful of steps to get the audio tracks and the midi tracks inserted and configured:
 
1) Insert 1 stereo or 2 mono audio tracks for each instrument in the Kontakt instance.  I usually use a mono Left and Right track for keyboard instruments, as I will usually also have one of the 2 tracks slightly delayed.
2) Set each audio track's Input to the corresponding Output Channel from the loaded instrument from the Kontakt instance.
3) IF using a left and right mono track for a given instrument, set initial panning for left and right.
4) IF any audio track(s) is going to go to a bus other than the master bus, set the Output for the track(s) to whatever bus you want it to go to.
 
The above are the simple steps for the audio tracks to go to each loaded instrument in the Kontakt instance.
 
For the midi tracks:
 
1) Insert a midi track for each loaded instrument in the Kontakt instance.
2) Set Output for each midi track to the corresponding instrument in the Kontakt instance.
3) Set the Midi Output Channel for each midi track to the appropriate midi channel Kontakt automatically assigned when each instrument was loaded into the instance.  (Midi Output Channel is found in each midi track, right under the FX Bin.
 
The steps above are all that are needed to get the midi tracks connected to the loaded instruments in the given Kontakt instance.
 
Doing the above steps takes VERY little time.
 
While the above gets the instance created, and all the tracks inserted and routed as needed, I ALSO then will set each instrument's gain to an initial value of around -18 dB.  I do this with a combination of playing a few notes for each instrument (the default velocity is 100), and then setting the Gain knob for each audio track.  IF needed, I will also go into the Instrument settings (the wrench in the Kontakt instance for each instrument, then the Instrument tab), and remove the check for the box that is labelled something to the effect of Accept Standard CC 7 and CC 11 Volume changes.
 
Anyway, the above is really not complicated, and once you do it a couple of times you will be a pro at setting a multi-instrument Kontakt instance up, along with the audio and midi track assignments.
 
Bob Bone
2016/07/04 11:18:34
thedukewestern
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kGH2A9xKfw    Heres a video I made regarding this.  Hope it helps! 
2016/07/04 12:11:41
200bpm
This is Komplikated!
 
This thread is forcing me to confront my Kontakt demons.  I will probably have more questions than the OP.
2016/07/04 12:18:57
robert_e_bone
Sanderxpander
I think using one instance per instrument is just a simpler way to achieve what I think the OP really wants - individual volume sliders in Sonar. I realize this isn't EXACTLY what he stated but often enough people will get stuck on thinking they need a certain solution when thinking about the problem another way is all that's needed. Happens to me all the time, at least.

This method is also PERFECTLY reasonable, as well.  Particularly with Sonar and other recording software, there are often multiple ways of doing things, and whatever works for anyone is fine.  :)
 
There was a performance discussion a year or so back, about folks who use a single ginormous Kontakt instance with kajillions of loaded instruments, versus using smaller but more numerous instances each with somewhere between 4-8 instruments, and Noel from Cakewalk weighed in on things.  IF I recall correctly, there is some benefit to getting the load shared between CPU cores by using a few instances rather than a giant single instance, but the example was dealing with someone who was loading something like 75-90 instruments into their composer templates for film.
 
I think that performance wise, there isn't much of a hit or a benefit either way, of having a few Kontakt instances with 4-6 instruments versus 10-15 instances of Kontakt each having a single instrument.  There is likely a way to measure some general difference estimate, but I am not about to go through that exercise of figuring out the performance differences in either of the approaches.  
 
As long as it works and doesn't cripple performance, go with whatever method makes sense to each person.
 
Bob Bone
 
2016/07/04 13:29:24
subtlearts
Between Kontakt and Sonar, two mindblowingly deep, flexible pieces of software, you can a) do just about anything anyone could reasonably ever want to do, and b) do it in about as many different ways as there are people using that combination of software. 
 
I sometimes work in a hurry, if I know I'm not going to be going heavy with instrument load and arrangement complexity, using a separate instance of Kontakt (or whatever) per instrument I want in the arrangement - much of my music involves a small number of highly complex textures interacting, rather than giant orchestrations. However, if I'm doing something closer to that, I'm more likely to go with a small number of Kontakt instances - say, one for strings, one for brass and/or choir, one for percussion, which helps keep it a *little* bit organized - and multiple MIDI channels / outputs. Sometimes I don't bother with the multiple outputs and just submix all strings, or whatever, in Kontakt's mixer, and then mix the stems in Sonar. As often as not that's all I need. 
 
It really depends on how fast I am building things up and how much control I feel I need to get the results I want. If I need to work fast and all the strings are going to have the same reverb and compression anyway, then it's overkill to deal with more channels in Sonar. On the other hand if you tend to do things much the same way a lot of the time then the fastest most efficient thing is to set up templates, and then you can just load them up and be in the middle of a familiar environment. I tend to be more a shoot-from-the-hip guy, I never know what I'm going to need until I'm at that moment in the process where it's like, I suddenly need realize I need Taiko drums, muted french horns and a Mellotron - so since I don't have those prepared in a template I'll take the quickest route to getting those things set up. 
 
Luckily, it's also pretty easy to change on the fly - if I suddenly need to do something to the tubas that I don't want on the trombones, I can give them their own output without too much trouble - it's a matter of familiarity with the tools, and to that end I would recommend the OP, and anyone else who's a bit mystified about routing between Kontakt and Sonar, read through Bob's tutorial above - since he was nice enough to lay it all out so clearly!
 
 
2016/07/04 16:46:35
200bpm
thedukewestern
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kGH2A9xKfw    Heres a video I made regarding this.  Hope it helps! 




 
Thanks for this video.  I'm duplicating your tutorial but something doesnt work.  I have everything routed as you advise, but when I play midi into Kontakt, the plug in is receiving midi from the midi track, but there is no output from kontakt, even though I have everything routed as you advise.
 
I have a screenshot that shows everything, but forum won't allow attachment!
 
Pulling hair out. (I was frustrated enough by the issue, then confronted by stupid forum that doesnt allow attachments, now im agitated...)
 
I've encounterd this before.  Its 2016.. the forum needs to accept gddm attachments.  Having to host a pic just for information exchange is soooo 2004.
2016/07/04 16:59:32
200bpm

 
Forum wont allow pic to show at original size.. must click through. LAF forum.
 
http://sonorblog.blogspot.com/
 
Again, when I play midi part, it is routed through to kontakt from the midi track, I can see midi signal coming in, but thats where it stops.  The output of kontakt is set as input to the synth track but it gets lost somewhere.  Any help appreciated.
 
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