Anderton

brundlefly
It is, and I gave the steps earlier.

 
I'm not sure why, but when I try what you describe with my projects, even though all the clips show AudioSnap as enabled they don't all sync up with each other. Maybe it's because I'm using a mix of loops, hard disk audio, and MIDI? In any event if others have issues, try the alternative technique in Friday's Tip of the Week #99. It's not as "automated," but it's foolproof and the sound quality is excellent.

Craig,
  I had your same experience.   Did you check the Average Tempo field for your clips in AudioSnap?  The Average Tempo detected by AudioSnap of the clips in my project ranged from 67 to 212 bpm.  All clips were recorded in the same project.  I suspect that if every clip is not Clip Mapped properly with the same tempo, then they will not sync.
 
-- Ron

Just checking in real quick .....
 
Finally , there is a large chunk of time available to me now .
 
...or in plain English ..No gig in a club tonight and it's just another dateless Saturday night ...he he he  
 
I'm so looking forward to sitting here and learning what has been explained by a few of you here in great detail ...
 
My intent is to try out each and every suggestion .
Then I hope to come back to report how it went , and thank each of the main thread contributors proper .
 
all the best,
 
Kenny
 

Anderton

kennywtelejazz
As far as where I'm going with this thread ,
I'm interested in being able to create the same type of workflow in SONAR if it is possible ...

See Friday's Tip of the Week #99, "Slow Down a Song So It's Easier to Play Along." The sound quality is better than real-time variable speed (unless you're changing tempo and pitch simultaneously using the Loop Construction Window) because the week 99 technique uses offline rendering to banish artifacts. Even if SONAR had real-time variable speed, I'd use what I described because I prioritize sound quality.

Hello Craig ,
 
Thank you so much for the heads up on your Friday Tip of the Week # 99 ..
 
I wound up starting out with your lesson first for a number of reasons ...
It was the easiest one for me to grasp straight out of the gate before I opened SONAR up ....
My apology to Noel for jumping around the line ...
I need to bone up on Melodyne to be able to do what Noel suggested ... my short list is that will happen tonight or early on tomorrow ...
 
Back to your lesson ,
Weekly Tip #99 actually ended up helping me in a totally unexpected area that I needed much help in , and I didn't know the work around on how to get there .... I will get to that in a moment ....
I spent about 3 hours doing audio only to keep it simple on my self ...
I took some pre mix's and bounces that I had around and opened them up with a total disregard for SONAR's global tempo/mapping  ...
Some of my work files ranged from some of my stuff/ music  to out right Traditional Be Bop Style Jazz ...
In the cases where the file was already a stereo mix that I hadn't premixed and bounced in it's own SONAR project , I found it to be very helpful to set a marker  at the end of the original file in SONAR's time ruler so I could restore the Stretch edited file back to the original length ...
i needed that since I didn't have the un-bounced tracks for a visual line up ... 
 
I Went from mild to wild as far as stretching went .
Yes ,Weekly Tip #99 is a very useful addition to my workflow.
 
I do hope to get over to your thread and leave some feed back ....
If I don't make it over there soon enough let me say Thank You here and now
 
In the mean time while I'm over here I may as well share a few of my impressions ...
I'm pretty used to playing with slowed down tracks.
Transcribing or copying a pro players lines is usually what I'm after , so I don't mind playing to a track that may exhibit the traditional artifacts . (that comes with the territory ).
 
 
Craig , one of the things that I found very useful about your lesson was in addition to it being very easy on the workflow regarding being able to play along ,  I found that it's an excellent way to  punch in at various places along SONAR's time line to try out different musical parts with out having to practice for hours to have the chops to play the parts precisely in real time ....
 
While I was taking a break from writing this post I did a little experiment ...
I time stretched an Abersold Be Bop tune , then punched in at 3 random places along SONAR's time line and recorded a chorus at each section ...I didn't start at bar one , I started at who knows where? on purpose  ...as an experiment 
Did the same for the other 2 places in my audio track ....
When I was finished , I bounced to clips my new audio track and did a regular slip edit to have a correct start point and end point ...
Since I had a marker in the timeline I stretched slipped the backing track back to it and did the same with the new audio track that had my 3 separate takes on it  ...
Everything lined up and  played fine .....that in and of itself was worth the price of admission .
 
The biggest thing/ benefit  I got out of your lesson was that it has helped me much more on the midi guitar end of things ....
just the audio was my original topic , so I consider this to be a real bonus  ...
 
I use the Jam Origin Midi Guitar Plug . The routing is super simple , I place it on my audio track as an effect , it is configured as a soft synth and it shows up in SONAR's synth rack .
The tracking is very good in real time ...one thing I really like about it is it makes no difference if I play using  it in real time or slap it on a guitar track I have already played and send it out to a synth ....
The coolest thing about your lesson is now I can take any song or project that I'm working on , and now I'm able to
reel the project into a place where I can play my midi guitar parts cleanly
 
I already went there and found that one out for myself
Using your lessons workflow ,  I made a sound file / audio to midi conversion  over here where I'm playing the Lounge Lizard just as fast and in the style of Chick Corea as I'm ever gonna get in real life  ....that's the good news ...the bad news is I ain't Chick Corea   it may take another hundred years or so in the wood shed ...oh well so be it ...
 
Alright Peace Out , thank you once again ....
 
all the best,
 
Kenny
 

I use Reaper...it has excellent pitch preservation.  I also use it for varispeed as well as what you want it for, it creates and excellent effect for some tracks.  Not that I'm saying ditch Sonar for Reaper...Sonar vs Reaper is no contest.  In fact I hate Reaper, it's very cumbersome.  But it's still easier to use for pitching recordings and the like, than messing about with Melodyne (for me)...I use Melodyne for other stuff.  And there is a free fully operational version...if you don't mind waiting about a minute for it to start.
 
Peace Ben 

brundlefly
The thing that's surprisingly difficult to do in SONAR is to stretch audio without preserving pitch.

That's why I use the Loop Construction Window for doing the old-school tape varispeed sound of raising pitch when shortening, and lowering pitch when lengthening. But I do this only on the final two-track, or to do interesting things with vocal harmonies, one line at a time.

Grumbleweed_
I could cut down a tree with a knife but I'd rather use an axe .

Apt analogy - the axe would give more artifacts 

SquireBum
 Craig,
  I had your same experience.   Did you check the Average Tempo field for your clips in AudioSnap?  The Average Tempo detected by AudioSnap of the clips in my project ranged from 67 to 212 bpm.  All clips were recorded in the same project.  I suspect that if every clip is not Clip Mapped properly with the same tempo, then they will not sync.
 

 
Autostretch doesn't care about clip tempo or beat mapping; it just does a linear stretch/compression of the audio according to the tempo ratio. So long as you haven't messed with the default 'Musical' timebase for the start time of MIDI and audio clips that don't start at time zero, everything should stretch and move proportionally to stay perfectly in sync. The one other thing I know of that can cause problems is having clips with positions locked. That's one reason I like to use the Inspector to access Clip Follows Project, because I can check the clip properties on the way to the Audiosnap section, and make sure nothing is locked.

brundlefly

SquireBum
 Craig,
  I had your same experience.   Did you check the Average Tempo field for your clips in AudioSnap?  The Average Tempo detected by AudioSnap of the clips in my project ranged from 67 to 212 bpm.  All clips were recorded in the same project.  I suspect that if every clip is not Clip Mapped properly with the same tempo, then they will not sync.
 

 
Autostretch doesn't care about clip tempo or beat mapping; it just does a linear stretch/compression of the audio according to the tempo ratio. So long as you haven't messed with the default 'Musical' timebase for the start time of MIDI and audio clips that don't start at time zero, everything should stretch and move proportionally to stay perfectly in sync. The one other thing I know of that can cause problems is having clips with positions locked. That's one reason I like to use the Inspector to access Clip Follows Project, because I can check the clip properties on the way to the Audiosnap section, and make sure nothing is locked.

Thanks for the reply.
  I performed the test strictly from the steps provided in post #10, which omitted the Follow Options setting.  When I reviewed the Clip properties, I found the Follow Options setting had defaulted to Clip.  Changing Follow Options to Auto stretch solved the problem.
 
Thanks again,
-- Ron

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
You should be able to do this with Melodyne and slip stretching.
Change the tempo down to 115 BPM and record your part.
Then restore the tempo to 135 bpm.
Now select the previous recorded clip and turn it into a melodyne region fx clip.
Slip stretch the melodyne clip down to .85% of a stretch.
 
This should now result in the clip playing at 135 BPM. Artifacts will depend on the source material, but I doubt you will hear anything bad with a .85% stretch.

Hi Noel,
 
I'm trying to catch up over here and put your suggestion to use .
 
Stretch editing was something I have rarely done or used ..Craig's tip got me up to speed on that workflow .
Been making significant progress over here on that workflow ....
 
Here's the place where I tell on myself & spill the beans on how little I know about certain things that can be done in SONAR .
Just opened up Melodyne for the first time in over 2 years and I'm absolutely lost and confused ...
The only thing I have ever done with Melodyne was to use the ARA conversion in SONAR by sliding a monophonic guitar or bass audio track over to a midi track to have it converted over to midi...
Any pointers on where I can find a way to learn how to do what you are suggesting me to do in Melodyne ?
 
all the best,
 
Kenny
 
PS , Brundlefly your next I haven't forgot you ....
I'm trying to catch up on the things I need to learn ..your post includes ....lot's and lot's and lot's of things I need to learn
 

kennywtelejazz
Just opened up Melodyne for the first time in over 2 years and I'm absolutely lost and confused ...
The only thing I have ever done with Melodyne was to use the ARA conversion in SONAR by sliding a monophonic guitar or bass audio track over to a midi track to have it converted over to midi...
Any pointers on where I can find a way to learn how to do what you are suggesting me to do in Melodyne ?
 

 
Hi Kenny. I had never used Melodyne's stretching, either, but just checked, and if you right-click a Melodyne clip after enabling the Region FX, you can choose Region FX > Melodyne > Follow Host Tempo. Then just change the project tempo. And like Audiosnap, after you've got the project back to the original tempo, you can do the same to disable it on the original clips.
 
I'm going to do some quick listening tests and see how it compares to online and offline rendering with Audiosnap.
 
EDIT: Quickie verdict: Melodyne is much more transparent than any Audiosnap/Izotope algorithm, especially when lowering tempo. Two thumbs up for quality.   However... it took much more time (like 10 minutes vs. 10-20 seconds for Audiosnap!) to enable the Region FX on all the clips in a sizable project, even though I selected and processed them all at once as I would do with Audiosnap. I've never heard so much noise for so long from a hard drive in my life!  And even before I enabled Follow Project or changed the tempo, I gave the project a listen, and it had all kinds of sync problems, artifacts, silent clips or sections of clips, etc. So as far as I'm concerned, Melodyne's out for temporarily altering the tempo of a big project.
 
Based on that, I would say use Audiosnap - Clip Follows Project to slow down the existing tracks while you record the new on, but use Melodyne to speed up the new track when restoring the project to the original tempo.