• SONAR
  • Is Sonar Platinum Too Much for A Beginner?
2016/06/06 16:11:11
Markubl2
Apologies for the length of this (my first) post, but I've been reading with interest the threads regarding the new lifetime updates of Sonar Platinum, and am soliciting opinions on my quest.
 
As a little background, I am about to "retire" from the majority of my volunteer work, and am looking for a hobby to take up the time.  I am an IT guy who is obsessed with music, and grew up playing the piano.  What better hobby than to marry my two interests (IT and music) together?   I'm a much better IT guy than I will ever be a musician, but I look forward to learning and tinkering over several years. Half the fun for me is learning how things work and generally "messing around."  
 
My plan is to buy a keyboard workstation (probably a Yamaha Mox8 or Roland FA-08), a NI Komplete Audio 6 interface, and a DAW.   I play no other instruments, and cannot sing; so, for me, I will be limited to the keyboard and DAW.  I've done a ton of research on DAWs, and understand that (for the most part) they all do more or less the same thing, and it basically comes down to personal preference.  As I said, I have no experience whatsoever with DAW or recording, so I have a "clean slate."   My original plan was to just use Reaper, mostly due to its cost, and the fact that there is a ton of great information and videos on how to use the product.   However, Reaper is "bundled" with very little (instruments and effects).  Instruments and effects interest me, because at some point the keyboard sounds will become passe to me.  As such, I started looking at other DAWS.  I've downloaded the trials for Reaper (not a trial I know), Cubase, Studio One, and Sonar.  I've played around a bit with them, but as I said, I know nothing, so I don't know which one I'm really interested in.  I don't like the USB lock for Cubase, so that is out for me (the online only Sonar does not bother me).  So it is down to Sonar, Reaper and Studio One.  
 
I would have never even thought about Sonar Platinum (I was looking at Artist or Pro), but am now with the lifetime updates.  On of my duties in my IT department is managing around 400 separate software packages - subscription based software is where everything is going, so I understand the business model.  I (personally) have bought lifetime subscriptions to software - sometimes it has worked out, and sometimes I've been burned.  I "get" the risk you take.  I am not wealthy by any means, but I have been saving for awhile, so I could fit the $500 Platinum lifetime in my budget.  My simple question is this - is Sonar Platinum simply too much for an absolute beginner?  I look at it this way if - I could buy Artist, and would pay for 5 years and have less features, instruments, and effects than I would at the beginning.  For Pro, that would be a tick over 2.5 years.  Are those extra instruments, effects, and features wasted on a total beginner?  Is it better to just buy Reaper or Sonar Artist?  I understand this is a Cakewalk forum, what are your thoughts on Reaper vs. Sonar vs. Studio One for a beginner?
 
Thank you in advance for your thoughts.
2016/06/06 16:27:18
arachnaut
My background may be similar to yours. I am a technical guy, retired, and music is my hobby. I can play a little, but not much. I tend to focus on experimental sounds, effects, and building Reaktor components to modify my sound files. I did some sound presets for some stuff a while back. I beta test a bunch of new software. 
 
I used Cakewalk Pro Audio a long time ago and then switched to Ableton Live, but now use Sonar Platinum exclusively.
 
Whatever DAW you pick, there will be a learning curve. Some of the learning is cross-compatible, but a lot isn't.
 
I learned to record a long time ago with analog 8 track tapes and mixers and a home-built synth and I am quite a techno-geek. I also used a lot of the early electro-acoustic software like CSound, CMIX, etc. I ported  bunch of stuff from Unix platforms to the Atari Mint platform ages ago.
 
Now things have settled between PCs and Apples, and I like how Sonar was so in touch with the PC environment. Also when I needed 64-bit stuff, Ableton was far behind, so I moved on to Sonar.
 
Nowadays I think most things are pretty good, so you pick what seems right and stick with it. Hopefully, they will endure. I've seen so many things that I adopted die...
 
2016/06/06 16:37:41
Zargg
Hi, and welcome to this forum. The basics in Artist, Pro, and Platinum are the same, so you do not have a deeper learning curve with Platinum. You do not need to dive deeper than you need at any time. There is always a balance between what you need to do, and what you want to do 
I have been using Cakewalk / SONAR for almost two decades, and have never been happier with it than I am now.
I also think that the ability to update or rollback at your own pace is really great. 
If you are in it (music production) for the long run, you will always have something to explore if you go with SONAR Platinum. I am still just scratching the surface myself
Besides, this forum is just amazing when it comes to helping. It is only surpassed by the knowledge here.
I also think think that the included "goodies" are really good.
All the best.
 
2016/06/06 16:38:26
Anderton
Consider this: any of the DAWs you mentioned basically replace an entire studio - the same kind of studio that would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars not that long ago, and require a separate engineer, tape op, artist, and producer. Yet most people try to do all four roles. SONAR has so many effects processors that if they were rack units in a hardware studio, they'd stretch from floor to ceiling several times over...not to mention enough instruments to make any hardware studio's backline green with envy.
 
One of Cakewalk's objectives is to make SONAR less daunting without reducing functionality. But this is a problem all DAW manufacturers face. The programs have become so sophisticated they've set the threshold for learning very high. 
 
OTOH, you don't have to use all elements of a program. You can use SONAR on a basic level - record, play back, mix, and learn the rest over time. There is absolutely no way you could absorb all of it at once, and that goes for any DAW. However, also note that if you buy SONAR Platinum now to take advantage of the lifetime offer, you'll probably be overwhelmed at first. But because of the lifetime aspect, you also won't find yourself wanting to upgrade to something more sophisticated in a year, and then upgrading to something even more sophisticated a year after that.
 
Aside from the software, I highly recommend realizing that any DAW is a sophisticated piece of software that demands a computer capable of running it properly. Also, I'm always shocked at how many people run SONAR with a sound card and the ASIO4ALL "universal" driver. So often, these are the people who experience problem after problem running SONAR and post about their issues, while the people responding with "I dunno, it works great for me" are using a proper audio interface with dedicated audio drivers. 
 
I'll close out with an analogy. Suppose you want to learn guitar and are serious about it. If you buy a really good guitar it will be easier to play, and you won't feel the need to get a better guitar later on. Meanwhile you will have had the experience of playing on a fine instrument, and had the chance to become truly familiar with it. 
 
 
2016/06/06 16:43:26
Brian Walton
I would buy Platinum in your case since it comes with way more Synths to mess around with not to mention way more and better effects.  
 
It is really no more complex than Artist (it just has more plugin options).
 
You don't want Reaper, it isn't as intuitive and since it comes with virtually no instruments or effects you will end up spending an arm and a leg for them as add ons.
 
Watch these videos about Sonar X2, they virtually all apply to Platinum.  They will get you going
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKRYWdEpbc5PgUgvrNuSvVyfv5qkll0qj
 
Here are some of the features added in X3
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKRYWdEpbc5MtPslyvpY_tkunB34cvU75
 
 You could also probably get by with a cheaper keyboard if you really wanted to.  I find a lot of people just end up using MIDI and the synth instruments (which are many and very good sounding) with in the program.  Chances are you might not even use the internal sound of the keyboard at all, as that certainly would limit your ability to touch up and manipulate your takes.  
2016/06/06 16:45:58
ampfixer
If you think that virtual instruments and audio plugins will be important in the future, Sonar would be the way to go. Platinum has bundled software that would cost many times the purchase price if you bought them after the fact. If you stick with it and want more instruments then you buy Komplete from NI and call it a day. Between those 2 packages you could explore for years and never run out of new things to tinker with.
 
Both Studio 1 and Reaper are very popular and very good, but nothing has a complete package like Sonar Platinum.
2016/06/06 16:46:48
bz2838
Welcome to the forum.  I would recommend Platinum because you can use just the basic functions while learning, and as you progress, you will have access to the whole program. 
 
I would also suggest you research videos on YouTube, the Cakewalk website, https://www.cakewalk.com/CakeTV, and there are several other videos out there by Fast Biker Boy, aka Karl Rose, and various other people, books by
 
Scott Garrigus, articles by Craig Anderton, Tip of the week http://forum.cakewalk.com/Fridays-Tip-of-the-Week-96-gLi-tC-H-Vocalsthe-Easy-Way-m3074655.aspx and of course Groove3.com    
2016/06/06 16:51:03
John
I do think Sonar Platinum is a massive DAW. However if you are thinking about the future and you can afford it its not so hard to learn as one may think. First off you don't need to know everything it can do the day you get it. There are 3 basic things you will want to do right away with it. Record, edit and playback. No matter what you get those three things are easiest in Sonar Platinum than any other DAW. The manual is great and documents everything in the program plus help is at your fingertips with the new help module. 
 
As you learn and become more confident with it you wont out grow it. It will offer new and powerful abilities you didn't dream about. Then you have us. We are your peers on duty 24 hrs. a day. You need help we offer it in spades. 
 
Also I believe Sonar is a very logical program that makes sense with a strong Windows identity. It follows the Windows protocol very closely. This for an IT guy will be a Godsend for getting the philosophy and logic behind it.
 
As a beginner it will seem hard at first but I strongly believe it would be just as hard with a less powerful DAW and you would hit its limitations and have to upgrade anyway.  
 
Also because you are starting off fresh we can help you pick the right gear to go with Sonar and ways to reduce any hassle you might come across.
 
 
For now I welcome to the forum and if you have any questions we can answer them.
 
 
2016/06/06 17:04:29
Sanderxpander
I know this is slightly bad form but I'm going to suggest you revisit Cubase in spite of the dongle. It seems to me you're going to do 90 percent midi based stuff, as in very little audio multitracking etc.
At the moment, I personally feel Cubase has the edge on midi performance. There are several threads on this board on the current state of midi editing in Sonar. It isn't terrible and I get by fine, but Cubase handles it better. It even has some features Sonar has no equivalent for.

I wouldn't go with Reaper, as was said it comes with very little and while it's powerful, the workflow can be a bit obscure (in my opinion) and again midi editing isn't necessarily its strongest suit. Presonus I believe is also stronger in the audio department. Does it do SysEx now, does anybody know?

If you're set on Sonar then the lifetime upgrades sound like a good deal because you get a reasonable amount of content for the money and basically like you said you'll earn it back sooner or later. I would probably still expect you to buy a product like OmniSphere or Komplete or some a la carte third party stuff later on to flesh out your sounds but Platinum will get you started. Don't go all out on a hardware synth. If you'd still like something with sounds, look for a decent quality older one. But I second the idea of putting the money into a midi controller and a good set of VSTs. It's a bit more effort to set up but if you can manage the "delayed inspiration" you'll have better quality sounds.
2016/06/06 17:09:09
clintmartin
I don't use everything Sonar provides, but it's nice to know it there. I thought it was a pretty easy daw to learn for basic task...I didn't know a thing about PC's or daws when I bought Music Creator 6. I quickly bought Sonar X1 expanded, and have been very happy with the help from Cakewalk's videos, manual, and of course this forum.
 
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