P-Theory
WTF are people complaining about? They have just announced a major product development that opens up new markets. Given a thank you to the existing user base, shown future feature developments (at a price that is miniscule) and yet still people are complaining???

I am in no way endorsed or some weird fanboy but accept the blessing kids!

Some people are never happy but sometimes you need to step back and smell the roses

Well said, I couldn't agree more.
 
Considering the deal available to both new and existing customers, I can't express anything but praise for the bakers. When I look at the improvements and additions since the arrival of Platinum, I have no doubt that Cakewalk have a genuine passion for their software.
 
For those on the upgrade fence, here's a non-exhaustive list of previous and upcoming features available for a relatively low outlay...
 
Features
Cakewalk Command Center
Synth Recording
Upsampling
Aux Tracks
Patch Points
Add Track Menu
Melodyne Tempo Detection
ARA Support
AudioSnap
Mix Recall
Smart Solo
Direct Stream Digital
VocalSync
Drum Replacer
Softube Console 1 Support
Smart Swipe Track Controls
Plug-in Browser Enhancements
Custom Workspaces
Theme Editor
Plug-in Load Balancing
Take Management & Comping Enhancements
Ripple Editing
Feedback Portal
Sonar OS X Alpha
Sonar Platinum Lifetime Updates

Plugins
Addictive Drums 2
Strum Session 2
Rapture Session
Lounge Lizard
The Anderton Collection
Style Dials
Overloud TH3 Cakewalk Edition
Cakewalk LP EQ and MB
Melodyne 4 Essential
A|A|S Ultra Analog Session 2
 
More than satisfied :-)

I assume some people are just concerned and people will always voice their concern.
they say the squeaky wheel gets the grease.  ive learned over the years that without the complainers, not as much gets done. the complainers kind of even things out in the world. don't get me wrong, im not a complainer, I try to be constructive with my comments, the best way I know how. but it appears complainers are one of the main reasons we see things get fixed. so don't disrupt that balance
 
other will just complain because they are miserable. people do that on public forums.
its been that way since the beginning of time.
(well since the beginning of public forum, what's that been about 20 years now?)
 
 "You cant please everyone"
 

jfcomposer
 
Right, so, in this analogy, I'm a hamburger guy, and hamburgers haven't been on offer for years.  I eat the pizza and the tacos, which I'm used to and taste good.  But what I'd really like is a juicy hamburger.  I'm tired of more pizza and tacos, which seems to be the norm now. No matter how many toppings you add to a pizza, it isn't a hamburger.

The danger with analogies like this is that people will read what they want into it and its easy to get misunderstood.
I'll try and clarify. The spirit of the announcement was primarily to announce some new directions that we are taking as a company. We think that it will greatly benefit our broad user base (lifetime membership) and also help us serve new users who had no access to SONAR before (OSX support). Additionally we announced renewed focus on improving existing features. The features listed are by no means all we have planned, just those that are on the near horizon. We realize that people want other areas of the application improved. We haven't lost sight of those for example video or staff view updates. Those are still in our backlog and we haven't forgotten about them.
 
Also I wanted to reiterate that us doing OSX support will not affect the focus on PC development. If anything it might improve it - we've already found and addressed some issues that affect both platforms.
 

Thanks Noel.
Quite frankly, I was shocked to hear that people were complaining.  I have been a Sonar user for years and love it even over Audition, which came with my Adobe suite (although Audition does have some integrating advantages with the other Adobe software when producing video but that's it).  I had waited for the 6/1 announcement, read it when it came out, looked it over a few times to find the loophole and couldn't see any, and then purchased it when I got home.  I see no downside.  What offers you give to other users is up to Cakewalk and I understand you need to draw a revenue stream (you are not in business to make people happy, you are in business to make money - making users happy is a means to an end).  A way to draw revenue is to increase the user base.
 
I was happy with the improvements being made and in 8 months was still willing to pay for another year of upgrades because I was happy with it.  Now, I just paid for my upgrade 8 months early and don't have to bother with the annual anymore.  Where's the issue?  I couldn't find it.
 
The only potential downside I could see is where your business model might be taking you in the long-term future.  If everyone switches to the "one-and-done" model, where is your revenue stream going to come from?  I know you cannot divulge all your business strategies because you are in competition with others, but maybe you could assuage some of the negativism by maybe explaining how you will handle future upgrades with features that currently don't exist. - Just a thought.
 
PS - They way you say "Thank you" to your existing customer base is by staying true to the posted 8/31 deadline instead of a perpetually changing deadline which I have seen some companies do.  They lose all credibility in my eyes when that happens.
Thanks again,
Jeff

Sigh...
 
I wasn't going to say much more on this subject but since people want to keep dragging it out by creating a whole new thread just to complain about other people complaining (the irony)... I'll clear up what happened, at least the way I see it. I'm just speaking for myself here, but I think my reason is the same for many other people that were "complaining". Hopefully people will stop making things up in this thread and coming up with analogies while missing the actual point:
 
There were 3 things announced:

1. Lifetime updates
2. Mac support
3. Future (core) updates/new features

 
Two weeks ago CW set out to create hype about an announcement on June 1, which obviously drew a lot of speculation. Mac support was mentioned many times as a possibility, and many people said it wasn't something they were interested in and that they hope it is something else. However CW went out of their way to ensure those people that it is something they will indeed be interested in. In fact the way it was written on the teaser page, it was clearly pointed out that it is good news for everyone existing SONAR user. So the message was that, just wait for June 1st, you will find out something great that directly affects you.
 
So, the 1st thing was already known almost 2 weeks in advance (did CW really think they can tell some users and it won't get out? No, really, did they think that?). The 2nd thing doesn't affect current SONAR users. The 3rd thing is a slight variation on what we have been getting for 1.5 years now every month - updated/new features. In fact the 3rd thing was also known in advance, since CW said previously while discussing the lifetime membership that they have a new commitment to fixing/improving the core SONAR product. So really I don't quite get what the 3rd announcement gave us that we didn't already knew.
 
So when we heard the announcement on June 1, some of us felt it was a bit of a letdown, given the hype that CW created around this announcement. In essence, there wasn't actually anything new on June 1 for current SONAR users.
 
That said:
 
I think the 1st thing is fantastic. I have no complaints about that. I don't recall other people complaining about this, other than some confusion and concern that it will impact CW negatively. But the actual concept is fantastic for any SONAR user.
 
The 2nd thing is also great, however it doesn't affect most of the current SONAR users. There is a concern that SONAR on PC might become a 2nd class citizen sometime down the line, or that we will now see fewer resources spent on the PC version. However CW has assured us that neither of those will happen, and I'm inclined to believe them.
 
The 3rd thing is also great. It is good to hear that CW is very committed to keep updating/adding features to SONAR.
 
So please, make sure you understand why people were "complaining" before creating a whole new thread about it. It was mostly the way the fevered hype didn't quite live up to what we were led to believe, but that's about it. It was a bit of a downer at that moment, but I'm "over" it and have said previously that I'm happy with SONAR both before and after the "big announcement". It's a much better DAW than it was a few years ago, and looks like it will become even better in the future.

SilkTone
Sigh...
 
I wasn't going to say much more on this subject but since people want to keep dragging it out by creating a whole new thread just to complain about other people complaining (the irony)... I'll clear up what happened, at least the way I see it. I'm just speaking for myself here, but I think my reason is the same for many other people that were "complaining". Hopefully people will stop making things up in this thread and coming up with analogies while missing the actual point:
 
There were 3 things announced:

1. Lifetime updates
2. Mac support
3. Future (core) updates/new features

 
Two weeks ago CW set out to create hype about an announcement on June 1, which obviously drew a lot of speculation. Mac support was mentioned many times as a possibility, and many people said it wasn't something they were interested in and that they hope it is something else. However CW went out of their way to ensure those people that it is something they will indeed be interested in. In fact the way it was written on the teaser page, it was clearly pointed out that it is good news for everyone existing SONAR user. So the message was that, just wait for June 1st, you will find out something great that directly affects you.
 
So, the 1st thing was already known almost 2 weeks in advance (did CW really think they can tell some users and it won't get out? No, really, did they think that?). The 2nd thing doesn't affect current SONAR users. The 3rd thing is a slight variation on what we have been getting for 1.5 years now every month - updated/new features. In fact the 3rd thing was also known in advance, since CW said previously while discussing the lifetime membership that they have a new commitment to fixing/improving the core SONAR product. So really I don't quite get what the 3rd announcement gave us that we didn't already knew.
 
So when we heard the announcement on June 1, some of us felt it was a bit of a letdown, given the hype that CW created around this announcement. In essence, there wasn't actually anything new on June 1 for current SONAR users.
 
That said:
 
I think the 1st thing is fantastic. I have no complaints about that. I don't recall other people complaining about this, other than some confusion and concern that it will impact CW negatively. But the actual concept is fantastic for any SONAR user.
 
The 2nd thing is also great, however it doesn't affect most of the current SONAR users. There is a concern that SONAR on PC might become a 2nd class citizen sometime down the line, or that we will now see fewer resources spent on the PC version. However CW has assured us that neither of those will happen, and I'm inclined to believe them.
 
The 3rd thing is also great. It is good to hear that CW is very committed to keep updating/adding features to SONAR.
 
So please, make sure you understand why people were "complaining" before creating a whole new thread about it. It was mostly the way the fevered hype didn't quite live up to what we were led to believe, but that's about it. It was a bit of a downer at that moment, but I'm "over" it and have said previously that I'm happy with SONAR both before and after the "big announcement". It's a much better DAW than it was a few years ago, and looks like it will become even better in the future.

Good summary.  Correct me if I am wrong, but in your analysis, Cake's "goodwill miscalculation" with the existing Sonar PC users was sending out those e-mails with the lifetime offer ahead of time because:
 
1) It derailed the "big announcement" thread into a difficult to read customer service thread with existing customers torqued/confused about not receiving the e-mail
 
2) There was no real surprise for PC users because the lifetime scenario was known to everyone
 
So, do you anticipate the reaction would have been much better if the e-mails with the lifetime offers went out on June 1?  Then everyone would have gotten a nice surprise at the same time.  Or would the situation be roughly the same?
 

I admit that I am confused, probably because i have imprinted from two past experiences. In the past, there have been two products that I really liked that are no longer available to me and that I sorely miss: SoundDiver and Alchemy. If I recall correctly, SoundDiver (which implemented the only quality remote editor for the Korg Wavestation of the several that I have tried) was originally an Atari program, then expanded to the PC. Then it was expanded to Apple platforms as well. Then Apple bought the parent company and immediately ended PC support and eventually ended SoundDiver altogether.
 
In more recent years, my favorite SW synthesizer was Camel Audio Alchemy, which was initially targeted to the PC platform. A few years later, they released an Apple tablet product. CA was promising a version 2 of Alchemy, for which there was great excitement, and then Camel Audio was "secretly" bought by Apple. PC support of Alchemy ended, and the anticipated version 2 never happened.
 
In all likelihood, Sonar is being ported to the Apple OS in an effort to expand the customer base and hence make more money. I just hope that Sonar does not attract any more attention from Apple than that.

Hopefully Apple is happy w/ Logic and doesn't want to buy another DAW.
 
They have already cashed out many users with the 4ever update.  So, it is either new users or new programs the rest of us want and need.  Cake will continue updates to SONAR and hopefully make money by adding software like SoundDiver (only way to get to some FIZMO controls) and Alchemy, my favorite synth of all time.   That is the implicit promise (well, not those exact softwares, but new products in general). 
 
Cake can make some customers in Appleland, but I wouldn't count on breaking into Protool's supremacy.  Most established users won't want to leave their well-known programs - just think how many users here are upset about the mere possibility that they might have to switch to another DAW and learn everything again (not to mention the costs).  A nice iPad program could introduce many non-pros to SONAR which is where the money is (100s of millions of users as opposed to 1000s of pro studios).  Just as I have no intention of buying another computer, overpriced to boot, to run MAC SONAR.  I too, am not excited about going Mac, but I can see it working out, driving new customers to the desktop versions (either Mac or PC).
 
If Cake will invest in some great synths the same thing can happen.  I'd love a new Alchemy, or fm synth, granular or wavetable.  Anything except another sample playback engine.  Kontakt has that pretty much wrapped up.

urock
So, do you anticipate the reaction would have been much better if the e-mails with the lifetime offers went out on June 1?  Then everyone would have gotten a nice surprise at the same time.  Or would the situation be roughly the same?

Yes I think if they didn't pre-announcement the announcement, and revealed all 3 of those things on June 1st, then it would have been better. But at the same time it generated a lot of hype and interest so I guess it balances out.
 
I'm probably wrong, but I think the "3rd" thing was an attempt to make it so that they can say to existing PC users that there really is something for them (since people were speculating about the Mac version and saying then there is nothing for them). Not saying it isn't a great thing, just that if it wasn't hyped, it would have been just one of the string of great monthly updates that we have gotten used to. That's what you get for setting the bar so high!

Sigh...
 
I wasn't going to say much more on this subject but since people want to keep dragging it out by creating a whole new thread just to complain about other people complaining (the irony)... I'll clear up what happened, at least the way I see it. I'm just speaking for myself here, but I think my reason is the same for many other people that were "complaining". Hopefully people will stop making things up in this thread and coming up with analogies while missing the actual point:
 
It's actually more ironic to be complaining about people complaining about the original complainers IMO. The original complainers obviously have no problem with complaining and started the whole malarkey. The people who complained at the 'originals' may not like constant cavilling over trifles-- from the exact same posters-- time and time and time and time and time again... especially when the complaints seem capricious and frankly stupid.