• SONAR
  • How do you mix in Mono in Sonar? Best approach? (p.5)
2015/03/03 13:56:41
Brando
I think Jeff's post above outlines the BEST way to monitor in mono - (see above). For sheer convenience I think the panipulator plugin (soon to be a prochannel module apparently) is my personal preference because it gives you easy options to hear the left channel only, the right channel only, or a mono Mix of both channels at three different volume settings. Free and low cpu hit as well.
2015/03/03 14:20:27
Bristol_Jonesey
Brando
I think Jeff's post above outlines the BEST way to monitor in mono - (see above). For sheer convenience I think the panipulator plugin (soon to be a prochannel module apparently) is my personal preference because it gives you easy options to hear the left channel only, the right channel only, or a mono Mix of both channels at three different volume settings. Free and low cpu hit as well.

You can do all that and more with Channel Tools
2015/03/03 15:36:38
dubdisciple
I am sure the channel tools will accomplish the same thing, but panipulator nails it in a way that is more obvious and intuitive to me. I am sure summing to a single mono speaker is the idea way, but for now panipulator serves me .
2015/03/03 15:48:07
Jeff Evans
There is an easy work around in terms of summing to mono.  A simple but effective one is to make a stereo to mono adaptor built right into a stereo headphone plug.  Rather than short out L and R to form a mono mix hot outputs  (I would not do that) you could connect two very small 100 ohm resistors to the ring and tip of a headphone plug and then connect the other two ends together to form the summing mix.  Connect the hot heat of a single core shielded cable to the junction of these resistors and the earth to the sleeve of course.  You will need to insulate the junction of the 100 ohm resistors that is in order to prevent that from shorting to ground.  With care you can fit all that inside a decent sized stereo 6.5 mm headphone plug.  (Use small 1/4 watt resistors helps)
 
The 100 ohm resistors prevent the headphone driver amp output impedance  (which will be very low BTW)  of one channel from putting too much load on the other etc.. It just isolates them nicely.  The headphone driver amp is seeing a 100 ohm load on both channels which it would be very happy with.
 
There is always some spare headphone output somewhere either on an interface or digital mixer in my case that is not often used which is perfect for generating a nice mono signal.  There will usually be a level control associated with it too.  There is enough gain available there to drive any amp well.
 
Any small single channel amp or one channel of any discarded stereo amp will suffice too feeding the small mono speaker.  (Some older HI FI amps had a mono switch on them and if that is the case you won’t need the summing resistors. Do it in the amp instead)  Actually I have got three small mono speakers connected to an old hi fi amp.  One is in front of me and the other two are set up in front of my keyboards on both sides.  That way when I am facing either keyboard setup (away from my normal stereo pair)  I have got a small mono speaker giving me a mono mix so I can just hear the main mix better everywhere I turn.  I have got ON/OFF switches on all three mono speakers so I can turn them off at will.  Most of the time they are off but when I want to hear the one directly in front I just flick the switch and it comes on and then I just turn the main stereo pair down.  Having switches on the other two for me allows me to shut them off when I am checking mono mixes directly in front.
 
I love the sound of everything coming out of just one small speaker.  I like to sit (quite close) and look directly in front of it too so both ears are the same distance to it.  It does not have to be very loud either.  When the sound is coming from a single point source like that there is no mono confusion.  It IS better than two speakers in mono.
 
I like the fact the sound gets louder when things are panned centre and a little softer when panned to extremes.  It is possible even after setting up a full stereo mix to check the mono speaker again and the sounds that are hard panned might be a little soft in the mono speaker.  Then you can just tweak them slightly in the stereo mix.  They won't change there much but will in the mono speaker.  It is possible to satisfy the stereo mix on your main pair and the small mono speaker at the same time with a little tweaking.
 
I find after spending time fiddling and getting a great stereo mix sounding great on a mono speaker when I turn that all up loud on the main speakers the mix is usually close to perfect and amazing.
 
I agree with sharke too in that starting with a complete mono mix and just getting it sounding great in the mono speaker is a great place to start before panning and applying stereo effects etc...
2015/03/03 15:53:33
Beepster
sooo.... can I not set up a bus in Sonar that sends a mono output of my mix to a signal monitor via the main outs of my interface (like the left main)?
 
Considering it's not centered physically in my studio that ain't the old Aurotone set up but it should still be mono... yes?
 
And all this talk about Aurotone monitoring has got me wondering... in my VRM Box software there is an Aurotone. Obviously the VRM stuff is set up to be monitored via headphones. What would be the best way to mimic the centered, single monitor, mono output of that emu via headphones?
 
That may not make any sense because I'm a dumbass but if I could mimic having that little speaker centered in front of my face except using the emu/headphones that would be cool.
 
I actually recognized that speaker from control rooms I had been in before and various videos I've seen but did not realize the implications of it until this thread... so I'd like to learn.
 
2015/03/03 15:54:25
Beepster
And Jeff probably answered my question as I typed that. Will read.
 
You rock, Jeff.
 
2015/03/03 16:52:30
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
Beepster
And all this talk about Aurotone monitoring has got me wondering... in my VRM Box software there is an Aurotone. Obviously the VRM stuff is set up to be monitored via headphones. What would be the best way to mimic the centered, single monitor, mono output of that emu via headphones?
 



Don't know VRM but used other digital emulators of rooms and speakers (e.g. ARC) and don't do it anymore ... nothing beats a real speaker like an Auratone (or one of the decent remakes) and training your ear to reference recordings ...
 
Personally I would find getting mono inside a headphone a very unusual/weird experience ... this would distract me ...
 
Being able to monitor in mono is a fine thing - but to me it has to be a push button solution. Flip a switch and it's on or off. No changes in the DAW required. Passive monitor controllers are not that expensive IMO and do other nice things for you as well (like never having to change your DAW master fader to control your speaker levels)
2015/03/03 17:49:39
Beepster
FreeFlyBertl
Beepster
And all this talk about Aurotone monitoring has got me wondering... in my VRM Box software there is an Aurotone. Obviously the VRM stuff is set up to be monitored via headphones. What would be the best way to mimic the centered, single monitor, mono output of that emu via headphones?
 



Don't know VRM but used other digital emulators of rooms and speakers (e.g. ARC) and don't do it anymore ... nothing beats a real speaker like an Auratone (or one of the decent remakes) and training your ear to reference recordings ...
 
Personally I would find getting mono inside a headphone a very unusual/weird experience ... this would distract me ...
 
Being able to monitor in mono is a fine thing - but to me it has to be a push button solution. Flip a switch and it's on or off. No changes in the DAW required. Passive monitor controllers are not that expensive IMO and do other nice things for you as well (like never having to change your DAW master fader to control your speaker levels)




I think I could, technically wire up this scheme with my mixer (which has a dedicated main mono out) if I had an extra monitor I could put smack dab in front of me leaving my Mackies on the left and right. I only have two 1/4" outs on my Scarlett so those could feed Channels 9/10 (it's a sixteen channel designed for throughput with the last 8 being the ones traditionally used for routing back into but any channels would work really). Then I guess I could do some kind of Aux routing to the mono or something (there may be a button to send to the mono out but I can't remember). It might require using knobs instead of buttons but still it would work.
 
With my other interface which has 8 in and out then I could totally route out to stereo and mono easily but I don't have that hooked up because it's old and PCI.
 
The REAL problem is the noise factor. Crappy soundproofing, bad room, etc so everything is done through headphones right now (thus the VRM Box). It sucks.
2016/05/28 15:17:10
joden
mcouture1961
Basic question that may sound stupid for many of you.
 
Talsking about recording. Not mixing. Since we all hear in stereo, shouldn't we record every instrument in stereo? If I am facing a band/orchestra I hear the whole thing in stereo but also each instrument. What should be recorded mono and why ?
 
I often thought about that but never figured it out. 


 
Yeah In know...ZOMBIE thread haha...but I camne across this thread looking for something else :P
To be honest we do not "hear" in stereo imo, we are hearing mono sources that are heard in each ear and the brain uses the differences in travel time to adjust location, height etc...nothing in nature creates sound in "stereo".
2016/05/28 16:16:55
jeteague
   This is an interesting thread and I have no wish to hijack it, but I am very confused regarding the comments on the panipulator plugin.  I cannot remember when I installed it but I have the panipulator on my prochannel.  I just assumed that everyone had it!
   Perhaps, I have misunderstood something here.  I have been using the panipulator      ( on the pro channel strip) on my master bus for at least six months.  It is really useful since there are switches for several pan laws and one switch to move the mix to mono or stereo.  You guys are talking as though it does not exist so I am really perplexed!  Am I nuts or what?
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