Not sure if this is project corruption or if somehow I'm doing something to cause this. If anyone has expereinced this behavior and could shed some light on it (in any way possible) I'd be thankful.
 
It's a multi track project. I am "Slip Stretching" all the tracks to do some fancy bulk time correction (so I'm make splits across the grouped tracks/clips and Slip Stretching the ends to the timeline while also occasionally changing the tempo/timeline as needed).
 
This is working great but after a certain point (and this has happened a couple times now) when I go to create a Split/Stretch edit (at the end of a group of clips) the START of those clips gets yanked away from the previous clips where there was an x-fade. This leaves a gap.
 
When this happens the END of the clip where I am stretching jumps forward in time erratically instead of landing where I release my mouse button (which normally drops the clip boundary at that point in the timeline).
 
So two things happen... the end of the clip jumps forward in a weird way after the Slip Stretch and I have to readjust the slip stretch (which takes two tries to stick where I want) and then when I zoom back out the START of those clips has moved forward in time throwing the whole thing out of whack (pulled away from the previous clips and the original split at the beginning gets moved to a weird spot... or something like that).
 
I don't think this is reliably reproduceable as it only seems to start happening after LOTS of edits.
 
Anyone expereinced this? Is this project corruption?
 
And yes... I seem to fall crotchfirst into the weirdest problems. lol
 
Thanks.

Hey Beepster - I've seen this happen when slip stretching clips and playing in AudioSnap. Near the end of a clip when there's not much space left after transients (or just the last transient?) the transient won't move at all unless you extend the clip a little (without the CTRL). I kind of recall what you describe occasionally happening when CTRL-stretching clips (without transients displayed). In my case, the start of the clip may or may not have moved as well, but it was inconsequential in my case and if it did move, I just dragged it back.

I know I haven't provided any real help, but at least you know it's probably happened to someone else.

"I seem to fall crotchfirst into the weirdest problems"
Wearing a cup is highly suggested in cases like yours.

Pete

Thanks for the confirmation, Pete.
 
Your description gave me an idea on how to maybe workaround this when it happens that I'll have to test. I too thought that dragging the clip back to reinitiate the X-Fade would fix the gap seamlessly but it seemed the start of the later clip was altered (like it was slip edited forward so the split was wrong).
 
However when the jumping occured at the END of the stretched clip I was slip stretching it again to line up to the spot I wanted (I would have to do this twice because it would jump the first and second times THEN land where I wanted). Maybe by repeating the stretches I'm causing the start of the clip to screw up somehow so I'll try letting the first stretch land where it wants and drag the clip backward. Maybe they will line up then.
 
That's a total pain though but maybe it will help me muscle through the last sections of the current song. I've been running into TONS of time consuming quirks with this time correction task (Stretching not obeying my clip groups so I have to stretch all the clips manually one at a time, stretching not obeying Snap accurately so having to free hand all the stretches with snap turned off to keep phase relationships, inserting new tempos and Beat/Measures not working properly after a while for no reason and now this issue).
 
I'm doing some tests in Reaper to see how well it handles this type of work and so far the stretching IS obeying my "Object" groups so that's a huge time saver (at first glance) and I think I figured out a relatively simple way to force tempo changes. Of course Reaper is a ridiculously complex beast with reams of menu items/preferences that need to be tweaked to force desired behavior and I'm not too familiar with the program in general so it will be another uphill climb. Hopefully I can hammer through this part of the production quickly and run back to the warm loving embrace of SPlat as soon as possible. lol
 
*puts on crotch helmet*
 
Cheers.

Beepster
Maybe by repeating the stretches I'm causing the start of the clip to screw up somehow so I'll try letting the first stretch land where it wants and drag the clip backward. Maybe they will line up then.
 

You know, coming to think of it, that's when I was having the issues.  I had split up a clip and was stretching sections so that the transients (visual transients, not AudioSnap) would line up with beats and measures.   (Don't ask why).  I always tried many different amounts of stretching until I found one that worked really well.  So maybe repeated stretching has something to do with it.  Or splitting clips.  You also reminded me that I had a similar problem with start/end points requiring slip editing.  I don't recall exactly how I worked around this, or if I did find a solution.  That may have been when I just went with a different workflow.
 
 

Beepster
That's a total pain though but maybe it will help me muscle through the last sections of the current song. I've been running into TONS of time consuming quirks with this time correction task (Stretching not obeying my clip groups so I have to stretch all the clips manually one at a time, stretching not obeying Snap accurately so having to free hand all the stretches with snap turned off to keep phase relationships, inserting new tempos and Beat/Measures not working properly after a while for no reason and now this issue).
 

Do you have Melodyne 4 Studio?  It seems like in multitrack mode you may be able to do some of this a lot easier.  Though I'm not sure exactly what it is you're doing.  Got mine for $49 ... I think it may have been an upgrade special, though, for Editor 2 users.
 

Beepster 
*puts on crotch helmet*
 

Mine is Titanium.  Costs a bit more, but it's worth it!

 
Good Luck!
Pete

The saddest part is that despite all the extra effort my method DOES work amazingly well in Sonar. It just starts to go wonky after a while which makes me think it's project corruption.
 
Basically all I'm doing is using the Alt Slip Stretch feature on a set of 9 live tracks (kick, snare, overheads, guit, bass, etc). When I start seeing a drift from the desired tempo I create splits around the section and slip stretch it to the timeline. I'm not doing a full quantize of all the transients (yet) so I can keep the live feel.
 
So essentially I'm working through it one section at a time. I let a section drift a bit, create a split right before a downbeat, drag the right portion out of the way, slip stretch the end of the left portion to a beat on the timeline (actually one sample further than the beat to allow for an EXTREMELY small crossfade) then drag the right clip portion so the start of the clip snaps to the beat (creating a one sample X-Fade). Once I've corrected the whole song this way I lasso all the clips and do a Bounce to Clips to render the stretches and create continuous clips (all splits removed).
 
When there is a tempo change I adjust the tempo map to accomodate it and continue on as described above.
 
It's the perfect plan... until things start screwing up. I've even tried bouncing after doing a bunch of sections to hopefully avoid overloading Sonar with edits (thus causing corruption) but by the time the quirks start happening I have to revert back to an earlier version and lose a bunch of work... with no guarantees that the project won't start screwing up again.
 
This is just the first phase of this endeavor too (which is a full album so I've gotta do this on 8 or 9 songs both of which were recorded twice so I have to correct both versions to comp them together).
 
Anyway... I'm GOING to get this done one way or the other. Just wish this would work more reliably.
 
Actually once the "overall" correction is done I'll be digging into more finite transient correction to nudge bad hits and other stuff to the new tempo map as well. lol
 
As for Melodyne... I'm not sure if it would handle this the way I want. That multitrack thing looks cool but I'm not sure it can handle the complexity of this material and auto correct stuff always falls flat when I try it.
 
I'm gonna keep poking at the Reaper stuff. If it ends up remaining stable I guess it will be worth having to learn all THAT program's quirks.
 
Really I just want get this done so I can get back into Sonar and do my overdubs and mixing.
 
Cheers.
 
/rambling

Hey Beep,
 
I just spent the last hour trying to figure out some pattern or cause, and I've got nothing ... except a headache.  Unfortunately I tend to refuse to be beaten by something that makes no sense.  But going through the process you describe (using only one track though) I found that slip stretching a clips works for a while, and then starts acting up as evidenced by the clip end stopping against an imaginary invisible brick wall as you stretch to the right (CTRL+SlipEdit or whatever you want to call it).  Let go of the mouse, the end of the clip will stay at the brick wall.  Try again it's likely to go past the brick wall the second time.
 
I did not see any issues with the start of the clip section (split) I was dragging, with a small gap between splits in the clip or a small crossfade.  I don't know why I didn't see what you describe.
 
Sometimes, after MANY stretches of the same clip section, it would go no further to the right no matter what.  Also, sometimes when stretching to the right, the clip graphic content would actually go left (compressing it) rather than following the cursor to the right.  Let go of the mouse and it stays compressed.  And sometimes the clip data actually disappeared completely when using the Browser's AudioSnap tab to reset the length to the original 100%.
 
On one run, I thought that test was going to refuse to mess up.  I was about to give up, when it finally messed up as above, only this time it took about 50 stretches of the clip.
 
Very strange indeed.
 
If anyone wants to try it themselves here's the simplified procedure I used:
 
1. Start a new project
2. Insert an audio track and import some audio (I used a 30 sec clip)
3. Split the clip and drag the right hand fragment off to the right a bit (to make room for stretching the left clip)
4. Grab the right end of the leftmost clip (as if to Slip Edit), but hold the CTRL key and drag to the right or left.
5. Let go of the mouse and the clip data will redraw stretched
6. Repeat this many times (I always stretched back and forth within the range of about 60% to 150%, concentrating near 100%)
Note: I'm not sure that the issue will occur with the first (leftmost) clip
7. Then, either leave the clip segment on the right detached from the left segment, or overlap a tiny crossfade
8. Now repeat the same stretching process only using the right end of the right hand clip
9.  I find after a dozen or two to many dozen such edits if stretching to the right, the clip will stop following the cursor at some point in a stretch.  With the mouse to the right of the clip, letting go causes the clip to redisplay but only stretched out to the brick wall.  Trying an additional time will usually get you past the brick wall.
 
Cheers!  And have fun.  Though do take a couple of aspirin before attempting to sort this out.
Pete

Hi, Beepster. I cannot say I have seen that problem before. I do not group tracks often, so that might have something to do with it.
(Sorry if this is too obvious)
Does this happen on this project alone, or several projects? Have you tried to temporarily ungroup the tracks before slip editing? Snap on or off? That is all I had for now.
All the best.
Edit: I wrote this before refreshing the page. Then no one had answered. Feel silly

Zargg71
Hi, Beepster. I cannot say I have seen that problem before. I do not group tracks often, so that might have something to do with it.
Does this happen on this project alone, or several projects? Have you tried to temporarily ungroup the tracks before slip editing? Snap on or off?
Edit: I wrote this before refreshing the page. Then no one had answered. Feel silly

Hey Zargg, no need to feel silly!  I'm not Beep, but I'll answer your questions with regard to the testing I did.
 
I don't group tracks often (ever?), and certainly didn't during my testing which only had one track in the project. Even then some of Beep's issues surfaced.  Though some of the symptoms initially occurred for me in some work I was doing, I tested by creating several new projects, and I could get it to occur in all of them.  I also tested with snap on and also with snap off.  All good questions ... because I had included them in my testing. 
 
Pete

Thanks for the repro steps, Pete. I'm actually surprised that you managed to repro the issue so quickly/easily. I figured it was something that would take massive amount of complex edits (like my projects) and still be intermittent. Obviously something is up with this. Shame because it does create great results when it works properly.
 
So I've spent the day trying to emulate the workflow in Reaper. After tweaking a buttload of prefs in weirdo obscure menus I've slapped together a semi acceptable workflow replacement. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a quick way to get it to "guess" a tempo section like Sonar's "Insert Beat/Measure at Now Time". The closest I've found is using a Master Track Tempo envelope and fiddling with it until the transients line up to the ruler. Not bad but it's not as precise as Sonar's Insert Beat/Measure option and is extra fiddling. It also doesn't allow me to manually "guess" tempos so I'm going to have to do that in Sonar, write it down, set my Reaper project then wing it through out.
 
Hard to explain and good lord setting the old Reap up to work the way I want is an adventure in itself but (sooooooo many menus/options). Hopefully THAT doesn't crap out after a while too (lol) but at least the stretching obeys groups so that should save a lot of time and make experimenting with different tempos not such a big deal (as opposed to having to adjust EVERY track EVERY time I need to freeform a stretch).
 
Cheers!
 
@Zargg... I think it's just good old fashion project corruption coupled with some hidden bugs and half baked features. I don't think many people work this way so might be low on Cake's radar but it sure would be nice if they twiddled with the code a bit to make this all happen a little better.
 
Hope you've been well, dood.
 
Cheers.