The same laws that they supposedly broke (either knowingly or unknowingly) affects musicians transporting guitars across international borders...especially into this country.  

You better have your documentation in order, all the correct forms and declarations to prove that the wood which makes the mahogany neck was properly harvested. Not having this documentation can result in your detention, the confiscation of said guitar, and substantial fines for breaking the laws relating to endangered hardwood species illegally harvested from endangered third world forests. 

Then cheap China knock-offs should not be coming here either, since there are videos showing them also on u-tube b various people. Their $200 knock-off copied made China guitar!

Guitarhacker


The same laws that they supposedly broke (either knowingly or unknowingly) affects musicians transporting guitars across international borders...especially into this country.  

You better have your documentation in order, all the correct forms and declarations to prove that the wood which makes the mahogany neck was properly harvested. Not having this documentation can result in your detention, the confiscation of said guitar, and substantial fines for breaking the laws relating to endangered hardwood species illegally harvested from endangered third world forests. 

Can any of you guys that feel the Act provides for this... which it doesn't...  Can any of you point to single example of this happening? Or is this just more hysteria and hyperbole?


Gibson got into trouble because specific claims were made against them by a country called India... some would make it seem like Gibson got busted for a lack of paper work, when in fact they got busted for forged paperwork.

Gibson got busted for lying, in writing, about a source of wood. Then we found out that not only did they know about the forged documents, they were actively soliciting other vendors to provide similar smuggling services.

The specifc wood in question in the Gibson case was fully documented as it traveled in and out of customs on it's journey across the globe.. and that's why India and now our U.S. government knows exactly when and where the wood's documentation was altered to favor Gibson's profits.



My personal guitars have no paperwork... that's the way it is... there is simply nothing for me to get in to trouble lying about.



When are you guys gonna figure it out? India doesn't actually have to sell us any wood. We should feel lucky to be able to get what we can legally and we should stop rallying behind corporate pirates and smugglers who think rules made by societies that inhibit their ability to maximize profit may be ignored. There's this ancient notion called the golden rule and I use it at times like these. I'd like to be treated with respect and I'd prefer that no one steal from me; I can't find any common ground with a corporation that steals from people and then wages a publicity campaign to make their crime seem ok. I'm not so naive that this sort of thought process will effect my mood... it seems like such a simple matter.

It has been an open shut case.


best regards,
mike

mike_mccue
I can't find any common ground with a corporation that steals from people and then wages a publicity campaign to make their crime seem ok. 

So you'll be dumping all your Gibson products right down to the last case, chord and guitar straps provided?


I won't tell anyone if you keep the allen wrenches. Those are standard.

Or is this just more hysteria and hyperbole?

Propaganda fed and led perhaps.

Thing is that many hard-working small businesses seem to want ally themselves for some reason to multi-national corporations.  These kind of companies may have a national based head-office but the will do their utmost to fleece their 'home' soil by seeking the best tax breaks offshore and being unscrupulous in the quest for profit, using pirated goods, exploitative means of sourcing labour and materials that actually hinders the nation they may call home.

Why any honest, hard-working, tax paying individuals would identify and condone such obvious corporate 'sharp practice' always amazes me.  The only cause of it that I can see is that it provides some excuse to bash a particular governments stance.

It seems to me lately that a large part of the corporate and banking world has put itself beyond the reproach of anyone.  Governments worldwide of whatever ideology are currently trying to do their utmost to solve a financial crisis knowingly caused by those that have gone far beyond anyone's control. Worse still they are bigger than national governments yet don't appear to have the means to regulate themselves.

I'm a western consumer therefore I demand to have ivory keys on my new piano.

There's plenty of Elephants left I've seen 'em in the zoo, and my rights are far more important than those that live near Elephants, no?

btw there's nothing to say you can't own antique ivory, for those trying to compare a finished guitar to a manufacturer illegally sourcing 'new' materials.

Jonbouy


I'm a western consumer therefore I demand to have ivory keys on my new piano.

There's plenty of Elephants left I've seen 'em in the zoo, and my rights are far more important than those that live near Elephants, no?

btw there's nothing to say you can't own antique ivory, for those trying to compare a finished guitar to a manufacturer illegally sourcing 'new' materials.

My M-Audio Axiom 61 is all plastic keys.


Does that make me a bad person?

What I had been following up to this point was that it had come down to interpretation of India's law.  It was legal wood if Indian workers had worked on it.  They did not have an issue with the wood being harvested, but rather who was providing the labor on the wood.  Maybe there was more info on this since then, but I have not seen it.


Fox News:

Gibson Guitar Corp. is claiming the Obama administration wants more of its woodwork done overseas, as a bizarre battle heats up between the government and one of the country's most renowned guitar makers. 
The dispute started in 2009, when federal agents raided the company over suspect wood shipments from Madagascar. Gibson took that case to court but has denounced the administration with a vengeance after agents returned late last month to raid several Gibson factories -- this time out of concern that Indian export laws had been violated. 
Though some reports on the dispute have cited environmental concerns, court documents suggest the latest battle boils down to a simple, non-environmental question -- which country is working on the wood? 
Gibson's CEO has said repeatedly that the only reason his company is in trouble is because U.S. workers are completing work on guitar fingerboards in the United States. In an interview earlier this week, CEO Henry Juszkiewicz claimed that the U.S. government even suggested Gibson's troubles would disappear if the company used foreign labor. 
The Justice Department is hamstrung from talking about the case because it's an ongoing investigation. Justice spokesman Wyn Hornbuckle told FoxNews.com only that agents were looking for evidence of "possible violations" of a law governing imports of plants and wildlife. 
Hornbuckle also confirmed that no charges have yet been filed in either of the two cases. 
Court documents help explain the root of the tree dispute. According to search warrants associated with the latest raid, federal agents in June intercepted a shipment of Indian ebony apparently bound for Gibson in Tennessee. The documents noted that Indian law "prohibits the export of sawn wood," which can be used for fingerboards -- but does not prohibit the export of "veneers," which are sheets of woods that have already been worked on. 
The search warrants alleged that the intercepted shipment was "falsely declared" as veneer, something that would have been legal. However, the documents said the ebony was in fact unfinished "sawn wood," supposedly illegal. 
This led to the raid on Gibson facilities late last month. 
Juszkiewicz said in a statement that the U.S. government has effectively suggested "that the use of wood from India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Department's interpretation of a law in India." 
A representative at the Indian Embassy in Washington could not be reached for comment. 
But Juszkiewicz has since claimed that his company's wood exports do in fact comply with Indian law, even if American workers are doing some of the work. 
In an interview on the company website, Juszkiewicz said Gibson "for decades" has purchased fingerboard wood that is two-thirds finished. 
"The fact that American workers are completing the work in the United States makes it illegal," he said, citing the government's position. 
Juszkiewicz maintains Gibson is still complying with the law.


Read more: [link=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/02/gibson-feds-want-guitar-woodwork-done-by-foreign-labor/#ixzz23ityii7O]http://www.foxnews.com/po...n-labor/#ixzz23ityii7O[/link]

Fox News:

Here's the end of the matter as found in a court of law.

 “As a result of this investigation and criminal enforcement agreement, Gibson has acknowledged that it failed to act on information that the Madagascar ebony it was purchasing may have violated laws intended to limit overharvesting and conserve valuable wood species from Madagascar, a country which has been severely impacted by deforestation,” said Assistant Attorney General Moreno. “Gibson has ceased acquisitions of wood species from Madagascar and recognizes its duty under the U.S. Lacey Act to guard against the acquisition of wood of illegal origin by verifying the circumstances of its harvest and export, which is good for American business and American consumers.”

End of story.

http://weeklyworldnews.co...-all-acoustic-guitars/

http://www.examiner.com/a...certs-to-seize-guitars

Personally, I have not heard of any individuals having instruments seized at customs crossings. I think if I understood correctly in one of the stories, that has been corrected by a Senator. 

quote>>> The threat was enough to send U.S. Sen. Lamar Alexander, R-Tenn., quickly leaping into action to make sure the government is prevented from seizing guitars made with forbidden wood provided they were manufactured prior to 2008. A law passed 112 years ago in order to regulate bird feathers used in hats was amended in 2008 to protect wood in "protected forests."

It was in the original intent of this law to seize guitars in this manner. I did understand that the feds did, however, seize guitars already made at the Gibson factory and I do not recall the details if this included any that were back to the factory for repairs that fit that category.