• SONAR
  • How to easily apply an identical mix from one project to another one in progress? (p.2)
2016/05/18 20:59:01
Beepster
bapu
OK, if it is all audio then here is what I would do.
 
Setup the same track layout and bus layout in the (three so far?) projects. This is crucial. Even if one song has an extra track all three songs should have that extra track in the position in the of the TV.
 
Now think of Project 1 as the Album. So the song ends at (example) 4:30. Set a new marker at 5:00. Open song two. Select all tracks and use copy special and select everything. Go back to song 1 and position now time to 5:00 (or closest beat 1 of that measure). Select track 1 and Paste Special insuring that you select everything. Rinse and repeat for Song three.
 
Copy and paste special will copy and paste tempo, markers and automation etc.
 
Now you have to options. 
 
1. Do all the songs in the project
2. Do save copy as (naming each song) and then stripping out song two and three for song 1, strip song 1 and three from song 2 and strip song 1 and 2 from song 3.
 
Then as you work on the next song go back to 5:00 and import tracks one at a time to the relevant traks. Save copy as, strip out first song from song 4 and song 4 from song 1. Rinse and repeat. Or alternative now save the project as template and from song 4 on just import track respectively.
 
If it all audio and the audio is contiguous delete measures should work fine for the first two steps.
 
 




That was actually my "way back" plan from a few years ago that I discarded because of the tempo stuff but if tempo info will indeed follow such copy special actions that would solve that issue.
 
Actually that ties into another conundrum I was having about getting my tempo maps into my final "mix" projects. As you may know I like to scrap my editing projects and reimport all my comps/final tracks into a spankin' new project for mixing. Simple enough when there is a steady tempo.
 
Raiding your idea would allow me to do that. Cool.
 
However since I spent a week or so organizing all the original wave files (total mess from another daw... I didn't record them) and meticulously imported them all into their own projects the "full album" idea (then splitting everything out again) seems like a lot of duplicated work.
 
Also... I neglected to mention that each song has 2 versions... neither recorded to click... that I need to tighten up to each other with stretching... then maybe comp together.
 
But of course you knew that I couldn't make things simple. Never is with ole Beeps, aye?
 
lulz...
 
Good info on the tempo stuff. That's gonna be wicked useful.
 
I'm also gonna see if I can make my computer asplode by copying MixRecall files from project to project.
 
*mad scientist noises*
 
Cheers!
2016/05/19 04:30:43
Bristol_Jonesey
Another option.
 
Do a "Save As" of your "Source" project (P1)
Delete all the audio
Copy/drag the audio from your "Destination" project (P2) into the now blank Source Project
Seeing as it's all audio there should be no issues regarding tempo, time sig, meter/key changes etc.
 
If you envisage having to add Midi at some point then before you do your drag/copy, replicate the tempo & other parameters from P2 into P1.
2016/05/19 04:31:58
mettelus
Tracks templates are definitely beneficial. If they were not used initially another tactic mentioned by Brando a while back is to run multiple songs in the same project. If already in progress on both, you could import the audio/MIDI from one to the other... barring tempo changes, clip FX, automations, etc., this would get pretty close (so you would need to do some extra overhead after the fact).
 
The advantage of his approach (if the computer has the horse power), is that changes to an entire album can be more easily adjusted "all at once." If the projects are separate and track templates were used (so Mix Recall sees the same stuff), that is another option. But if those two projects should "mirror" each other, I would definitely consider the "all in one" approach if possible.
2016/05/19 11:15:29
Beepster
So I just tried my hamfisted Mixrecall "hack". Sadly it didn't work (or I'm just too dumb to trick it into loading the Mix scene).
 
I'm going to describe what I tried and maybe some of the programming gurus (or even a Baker) can take a whack at it.
 
So I was working on the premise that if Mixrecall is saving "scene" files in that special sub folder (labelled Mix Scenes in the project folder) that maybe I could copy that into the Mix Scenes folder of another, "identical", project and then "Recall" it in the new target project. Seems like that would work with some fiddling but I couldn't make it happen.
 
First I tried just copying the Mix Scene over to the target project folder then checking to see if it would just show up in the Mixrecall module in the project. Nope (didn't expect it to).
 
From there what I tried was creating a new Scene in the target project. This was just a "dummy" scene to get something showing up in the MR module and pointing it to the Mix Scenes folder.
 
I copied the REAL Mix Scene from the mixed project into the target project and renamed the file (in Windows Explorer) exactly the same as the "dummy" scene I just created and deleted the dummy scene.
 
The hope was that by using the exact same file name and removing the "dummy" file that this would trick MixRecall into loading the mix data. The mix scene name showed up in the MR module but loading it did not load the scene I created. It did SOMETHING but none of the effects or settings I wanted were loaded. I want to say it zeroed the controls but it didn't. Not sure what's up and am not going to investigate it too much more today.
 
I also opened up the Mix Scene file in Notepad to see if I could find a file "Title" or something that could be changed as well but it looks encrypted or using a programming language I am unfamiliar with (which is most of them). It was mostly symbols and garbledygook with a few human readable entries scattered throughout (track names).
 
Anyhoo... you guys see where I was going with this "hack". I just don't know enough about programming to make it happen so maybe Panu or our other programming maniacs could poke at it and see if it is indeed possible to make this happen.
 
I think getting this to work would be absolutely brilliant and useful for a lot of us.
 
Actually, maybe if Bill Jackson is around he could take a swing at it. He showed us some "hacks" to fiddle with the Drum Replacer stuff a while back so maybe his curiosity and insider knowledge could get this going.
 
For now I'll probably use the Track Templates method until my final mix. Still gotta test it to see if it will use my existing busses but either way it'll get the job done. Just a little less "automagic" than I was hoping for but it's good practice for me.
 
Cheers and thanks.
2016/05/19 11:28:56
Sanderxpander
Track templates will not create duplicate buses AFAIK. If your project for instance already has a "verb" bus it will be used, otherwise one will be created. I think they would be the way to go. 
2016/05/19 11:31:22
Bristol_Jonesey
Or you could try my method.
2016/05/19 11:53:00
Beepster
Sanderxpander
Track templates will not create duplicate buses AFAIK. If your project for instance already has a "verb" bus it will be used, otherwise one will be created. I think they would be the way to go. 





Cool.
 
Bristol_Jonesey
Or you could try my method.




Problem is there is actually a lot of tempo stuff going on and I'm trying to keep the tunes self contained. For now, until I get it all corrected, comped and edited the "whole album" method would just be too messy and would crush my system. I've actually been pushing even these smaller/simpler projects to the point of glitchiness so I gotta be careful.
 
As for setting up a mix template, creating dupes and reimporting that'll end up duplicating a lot of work that's already done since all the raw projects are already set up. Currently this is a "premix" type thing for me to practice and maybe do scratch tracks to.
 
Both are indeed excellent approaches... it's just too early on to commit and/or invest that level of work on what's essentially going to be a throwaway mix.
 
The Template method does seem to be the path of least resistance for this phase of the project. That will preserve the projects I already have set up but still give me some uniform results.
 
Another thing is (in regards to the whole album type method) is I despise working with automation in Sonar so I try to keep it at a bare minimum. As in if I have my "general" sound I can make minor overall tweaks to that on a project to project basis instead of having to bind parameters to envelopes to make those accomodations.
 
Thanks thoguh. It all helps and these other techniques will likely come into play down the road. I'm guessing I'll be wrestling with this album for months. Maybe even longer considering the snail pace I seem to work at. lol
 
Cheers, Jonesey.
2016/05/19 11:54:52
Sanderxpander
Beep implied he is using lots of tempo changes and lots of little clip edits, which is why he didn't want to drag audio. Because yes, that would normally be simplest. If he can bounce all tracks to one long clip each that should also work. 
2016/05/19 12:02:38
Bristol_Jonesey
Yeah that would be my suggestion, I'd also drag the left hand edge of each clip out so they all start at 01:01:000
 
Don't worry about spending months on one album Beep.
We're STILL working on a crazy concept album (double CD's worth) since early 2008!
2016/05/19 12:07:03
Beepster
The drawback to my method of providing as much detail and reasonings for my madness as I can is that things tend to get lost in the wall or words.
 
Kind of a balance between making sure people have the deets and not burying the reader with my insanity. lol
 
Doesn't help that I seem to come up with the most ridiculous schemes to force my will onto the material. This is my first "full album" production so it poses all these new challenges whereas before for the "singles" I've hacked together I could just do whatever I wanted.
 
Meh... people have been doing this for ages so I gotta brain it up and just get it sorted.
 
Thank goodness for you lot.
 
Cheers.
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