• SONAR
  • It just does not sound professional. (p.8)
2016/05/15 11:26:29
BASSIC Productions
I would be happy to work with you on the Shubidua cover (I couldn't follow your new mix link).  As a quick suggestion, I would advise you to listen to each track (instrument) and try to imagine that you are the pianist, drummer, bassist, violinists, ect.  Listen to them by themselves and imagine you are playing the line and/or phrase (for instance, the drum part seems to lack fills, paradiddles and cymbol parts that can help make them sound less "fake").
 
2016/05/15 11:35:02
SoundRegion
BASSIC Productions
I would be happy to you with the Shubidua cover (I couldn't follow your new mix link).  As a quick suggestion, I would advise you to listen to each track (instrument) and try to imagine that you are the pianist, drummer, bassist, violinists, ect.  Listen to them by themselves and imagine you are playing the line and/or phrase (for instance, the drum part seems to lack fills, paradiddles and cymbol parts that can help make them sound less "fake").

Thanks a lot. Sorry about the link. I actually thought "private" meant that you could still access it by direct link. I just didn't want 2 of the same on the list. It should be accessible now.
I think I'm on the right path now. I found some cables, so I can connect my speakers to the Akai. Much better now.
2016/05/15 11:56:02
BASSIC Productions
That is a much better mix!  Next, it has a pretty dry sound.  I would suggest a little reverb to put the instruments into a "physical" space (just as a suggestion, when you think you have the reverb sounding cool, lower it in the mix a little; you will like it better after hundreds of listens). 
 
2016/05/15 12:23:17
SoundRegion
BASSIC Productions
That is a much better mix!  Next, it has a pretty dry sound.  I would suggest a little reverb to put the instruments into a "physical" space (just as a suggestion, when you think you have the reverb sounding cool, lower it in the mix a little; you will like it better after hundreds of listens). 
 


Thanks for your input. I tried it and it works. I used reverb on my audio tracks, but I don't think I've used it on the whole mix before.
2016/05/15 13:03:49
Beepster
SoundRegion
BASSIC Productions
That is a much better mix!  Next, it has a pretty dry sound.  I would suggest a little reverb to put the instruments into a "physical" space (just as a suggestion, when you think you have the reverb sounding cool, lower it in the mix a little; you will like it better after hundreds of listens). 
 


Thanks for your input. I tried it and it works. I used reverb on my audio tracks, but I don't think I've used it on the whole mix before.




What method did you use? Did you just toss a reverb on your master bus or did you use Sends and a Reverb bus?
 
If you did not use a reverb bus or don't know the method I'm talking about look up mixing tuts/articles about "Reverb Busses"
 
The premise is that instead of applying the reverb directly on the tracks (which will result in each instrument ending up in their own "space" instead of all the reverb being applied in a way that makes it sound more natural like everything was recorded in the same room) or on the master bus (which applies the SAME level of reverb on everything equally instead of allowing you to apply more/less levels of the SAME reverb/space to specific instruments) you create a "send" on all the the tracks in your project and send them to a special bus (create a new bus to do this and send all your tracks via the sends to that bus and then the bus goes to the master like everything else).
 
Put your reverb effect on that bus and turn the output volume of all the Sends on each track all the way down (so nothing is being sent to your reverb bus). If your reverb effect has a "Wet/Dry" knob turn it all the way to "Wet". You want the full reverb sound applied (Wet/Dry controls mix in the original signal with the effected signal which you don;t want for this).
 
Now start turning up the "Sends" on each of the tracks. Now main output of your tracks is still hitting your master (or any submix busses you have them routed through) and the "tap" you made with the send is going straight to the reverb bus. As you turn up the "sends" your dry signal and mix is preserved but now the reverb bus adds some "space" to the individual tracks/sounds. Since it's all the same reverb unit it sounds more like all the instruments are in the same "Space" but you can only add as much verb as each instrument needs.
 
So maybe you want your drums or a specific drum piece to sound less dry but adding to much verb to a guitar or keyboard muddy's up the mix. Just turn up the send output more on the drums than the other tracks.
 
This is particularly important for bass parts. Bass doesn't respond as well to reverb (you usually wnat it dry and tight to avoid bottom end mud which reverb can contribute to). You can just keep the bass reverb send very low or totally turned down and apply as much as you want/need to the otther tracks.
 
You can also turn up multiple send outputs simultaneously in Sonar by multi "Selecting" all the tracks, holding "Ctrl" on your keyboard then turning up ONE of the selected track's sends. All of them will increase together.
 
This is a good way to start your reverb send sound. I generally do this to set the base level of my reverb "room" sound. Like maybe everything goes up to the 9-10 o'clock position on my sends so everything is getting a touch of room.
 
Then I go through the individual tracks and turn things up/down as needed (sometimes creating sub selected groups like turning up the sends on all the drums at once or multiple guitar tracks at once, etc).
 
Anyway... you may already know all this but if not and you liked what reverb did for you then this "Reverb Bus" technique is the "proper" way to go about and has been used in this manner since almost the beginning of multitrack audio.
 
 
Cheers.
2016/05/15 15:46:55
BASSIC Productions
To Beepster... I agree with your bus idea but I actually think each instrument/group probably needs its own reverb first to get a good sound (very minimal) and then I do various processing busses.  This gives each instrument an eq, compressor, ect. for its sound and place, then I can mix background, middle ground and fore ground sounds.  Then, a final reverb to push the entire sound where you need it to be for the style.
 
Of course, this is kind of advanced mix engineering techniques to create a soundscape when working with non-acoustical spaces for virtual instruments... and every mixing engineer has their own toolbox.
 
In Sonar, once I'm on a bus, I usually use the FX channel because it does what you mentioned above without having to resort to the analog style of mixing more channels unless you need an effect for compositional/production usage.  I think we are all examining the newer digital DAW techniques vs. our analogue mixing board productions.  I don't disagree with you that your technique will work and work well but it does seem like it creates more channels/tracks than might be necessary with Sonar.
2016/05/15 15:52:36
BASSIC Productions
To SoundRegion... I might suggest starting with simple steps, one at a time, just so you can hear how these things work in Sonar (or any other DAW) and get a good ear for the process.  Personally, I think you're going to need to learn how to use various compressors to get the mix to the next step... but that is just my personal opinion.
 
2016/05/15 15:57:40
Beepster
BASSIC Productions
To Beepster... I agree with your bus idea but I actually think each instrument/group probably needs its own reverb first to get a good sound (very minimal) and then I do various processing busses.  This gives each instrument an eq, compressor, ect. for its sound and place, then I can mix background, middle ground and fore ground sounds.  Then, a final reverb to push the entire sound where you need it to be for the style.
 
Of course, this is kind of advanced mix engineering techniques to create a soundscape when working with non-acoustical spaces for virtual instruments... and every mixing engineer has their own toolbox.
 
In Sonar, once I'm on a bus, I usually use the FX channel because it does what you mentioned above without having to resort to the analog style of mixing more channels unless you need an effect for compositional/production usage.  I think we are all examining the newer digital DAW techniques vs. our analogue mixing board productions.  I don't disagree with you that your technique will work and work well but it does seem like it creates more channels/tracks than might be necessary with Sonar.




Yup. Definitely. I just figure for a beginner that's a pretty introductory way to explore "parallel" bus type effects while providing immediate desired results (because OP liked the idea you tossed out after trying it).
 
From there the world of parallel bus effects can be explored more (like setting up a reverb/delay bus just for drums and other instruments which compliment the "overall" reverb bus).
 
Also I wholly endorse the concept of creating "submix" busses to mold and group groups of similar tracks (like guitar/drums/etc) to EQ the overall sound of the group with EQ/compression/etc.
 
You of course know all of this as a pro. I just like tossing out concepts for newcomers to check out and digest because I'm not so far removed from where the OP is at and such advice on this forum and elsewhere has gotten me where I am today (maybe mid to high quality "demo" level mixing skills... not total pro yet).
 
Paying it forward and all that... albeit at an "intermediate" level at this point. I'll get smarterer. lol
 
Cheers!
2016/05/15 16:11:54
BASSIC Productions
At Cactus Music... Listening to the tracks and also LOOKING at the wave forms I think your suffering from not so much the recording part, but mixing and mastering. Your songs are a little out of balance and the overall level is weak. 
LOOK at a commercial recording of that style of music and you will see the waveform is a solid brickwall. There's no room for dynamics in pop music. ( and even country now) Slam that puppy with your mastering tools and get your average RMS level around -12db. My guess is your 10db away from that goal.
 
WOW, I'm sorry but I REALLY disagree with your post!!!
The song SoundRegion posted isn't a dance tune so a brickwall compression will take away from the artistic intent.  Good mastering still includes dynamics but it requires better waveform analysis to create the "rectangle" forms used in current music and the RMS levels need to achieve -6 to -1dBfs to get the loudness of modern pop releases.  If you want to give advice to an upcoming artist, guessing is less helpful.  Slamming the levels with some mastering tool to gain overall loudness will drastically change the frequency/mix levels and is not something any professional mixing or mastering engineer would EVER do, even in EDM styles!!!
2016/05/15 16:12:02
Bristol_Jonesey
Another approach to reverb is explained in Mike Seniors' book, "Mixing secrets for the small studio"
 
Here, he advocates the use of up to 5 different reverbs for different purposes:
 
Blend
Size
Tone
Sustain
Spread
 
So far I've had great success just using the first 2, Blend & Size
 
Each of these is put on its own bus and varying amounts are sent from individual tracks to one or both of them.
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