I remember starting with the "Bible" (see pic below) then adding and adding until I had quite a library (all in lieu of actually practicing naturally - lol!).



I also found the book below to be very good (with lots of history in it), though not exactly light reading.



I've found (and have an accelerated learning certificate that helped me) that reading about the same topic from different authors and points of view vastly increases my chances of understanding a subject.  Sometimes you just need those other approaches to "get" the material.  In most new areas that I want to learn about, the "For Dummies" books are great to start with because they expose you to the basic structure and aspects that you'll need to know before you dive in deeper with better books.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I've definitely bought books that were essentially unreadable because I didn't have enough background knowledge to even know the context that the book was being written in.  When you start seeing concepts defined by other words and concepts that you don't know, then the new learning has a 0% chance of sticking with you.  I can't stand it when books deviate into the minutia regarding some obscure aspect to the point that you totally lose where you were in the overall learning.

Then, after devouring a few books, I like to organize things (usually in Excel - lol!) for my own analysis.  For example, in addition to my spreadsheet of all scales derived from the usual 12 notes, I have one with all chords in all keys and all positions (and almost completed - heh).  What I do (and all of these are made for my own use originally, even if others find them helpful later), is to start with the "universe" of data, sort it out, then reduce it down - looking for patterns and redundencies that can be removed.  Too many times I've seen where people study a book that shows, say, five things and these people memorize the five things not knowing that there might actually be seven total and a simple key or rule that covers all of them.  Needless to say, the rule is usually easier to remember than the rote memorization of just the five things too and covers areas that were missed.

No, I'm not a nerd at all, nope!

Well, comparatively, I'm just a beginner, then.  But obviously in good company. :)  

No, I'm not a nerd at all, nope!

 
craigb<----supernerd

Hi,
Music, was, like writing/stories/religions ... was part of the oral tradition for thousands of years.
 
The "writing" things down was difficult for writing, as you probably well know, and there are some "texts" of various things that go as far back as 3k years and such, but in general the writing in those is very unclear, and not clear ... at least as how the standards are today.
  
Music, being "defined" and "written" down ... is probably only 1400 years old or so ... and the first things that we know were written down were Gregorian Chants and by the time that Albinoni, Vivaldi and Bach, Handel got around, we know that these written down. And I think that by the time that Bach came around that music had already been defined by the western concept of the 12 note scale. It was at this same time that some folks "thought" that some notes were "happy" and some notes were "sad" ... and that kind of stuff which Bach set out to disprove.
 
Since then, almost ALL music in the Western world, has ALWAYS been defined by the staff and the notes. Much of the music in the East was NOT defined by the notes, but by the ability of the player ... so ... a listing of classical composers in India, China and Japan, is not always going to be found, whereas a list of the great players and their stories is found quite often, even in movies. Which tells you that the music was driven by the feeling, and not the staff! (How English of them!!!!)
 
All in all, my main issue, with today's music ... is that we're married, lock stock and barrell and shotgun to the staff, but and we have NOT forgotten about the feeling behind the music, and this is the reason why ... for me ... sometimes the DAW is a problem that most people are hiding behind to make up for their lack of abilities otherwise ... specially in those of composing.
  
HOWEVER, we do not want to suggest that some of these are not good, or right, but mostly they are extremely simplistic, when compared to orchestral staffs, or opera books!
  
Popular music, jazz, and blues, in the 20th century added the original "style" back into the music, and this is something that "written" music has to learn to work with and I am not sure that "written" music is going to put this stuff down that soon, since too much of the stuff these days, have so many "effects" that an instrument does not necessarily reproduce when you and I play it ... since there are 15 knobs to flip and adjust to get the proper sound ... and you don't have that issue with any orchestra instrument, besides tuning ... which tells you that a lot of instrumentaiton TODAY is not about the music itself, but something that is OUTSIDE the  original design of conventional music. THE SOUND.
  
The only definitions that were used, were like ... the ones wih the Italian words, so you knew how to play those ... with no mention of a chance from 4/4 to 3/4 or 17/32! Today's DAW music is too tied up to the timing and timer, in order for it to have more expressive and subtle variations in the music besides a chord, or note on the staff!
Rock music has simplified all this, and in general, is no where near the design/talent of most classical music ... and the main reason why so much of it is not respected as important music ... but it has something that the classical music has been lacking for years ... personality and attitude ... because you can not translate those very well in notes and staffs!
  
The history of music will change in the next 100 years. In the past, it has been defined by an upper class, that decided what was good music or bad music, and most "popular" music was not accepted or considered, to the point that things like Gregorian Chants and other religious music was not considered ... "music" ... for a long time.
This  has changed in the 20th century with the advent of the music business and Elvis, Beatles, Rolling Stones and many others breaking the scales of time ... all of a sudden, the money these brought in was more important than a few fuddy daddies out there defining what was right or wrong ... and this is the part that music history will have to define better as time goes by ... there are some things in "progressive music" ... like Tales of Topographic Oceans, Passion Play, Thick as a Brick, Atom Heart Mother Suite, Echoes, and many other pieces, that are magnificent examples of classical music done by the folks of our generation ... and by the time you check the output from a band like YES, you have a lot more music ... than more than half of the composers listed in music history! And these kids merely used the instruments of the time ... which was electric ... where before most music was NOT electric.
  
I would not think of you as a music "nerd" ... I would imagine that your ability is taking a turn to expand itself ... beyond a spot/place that is limiting itself, btw ... and you are bored with it. In this area, will also help to look for movies that deal with music and the artist that come around in various different forms, and a lot of foreign film does this and I will make a list of them for you and post in a different thread. I look for these, btw, because a lot of them ... use modern ideas to threaten the story before and some results are interesting ... like when you watch "Amadeus" ... and Mozart asks the King what he thinks and he finally says after a while ... "too many notes" ... and everyone agrees ... and this is very clear when you go look at music history ... there were not that many pieces that had "as many notes" ... before Mozart ... they were all "methodical, mathematical, and simplistic, and Mozart added a different "feeling" (very rock'n'roll'ish in the end) that the time and place originally had an issue with!
 
As I love to say all the time, all music is about ... YOU ... and how you define that. And the "staff" or the rest is not as important as you being able to get it done, and then figuring out how to write it down so you can do it again ... now the DAW and the software has a place to help you ... not to change you! You have to "fight" your vision, to come up with the right note combination to descrive what you "see", and again the "Amadeus" film is a perfect example ... use ... this ... and you see the visual and eventual result ... and at the time, no one did that with music at all ... which is the reason why a Salieri is so important in the film ... to help "translate" what the man sees ... that the modern language does not have an equivalent for ... YET!
Same thing for rock music these days! But music will grow up to find a way to do this ... since today's "electric" folks ... are the music of the future. Plain and simple.
 
Seeing this in a different perspective is a bit different, and sometimes I think that it can hurt people that play music, because playing different things and learning different things, other than different notes on Rackmaninoff or Scriabin, or Schoenberg, is not the same thing ... there is a lot more to it ... and rock music is showing that if you don't have the "feeling", the "attitude" and the "bapu" ... then, it's not music!
 
If you get a chance watch that special on "Krautrock" ... the first 3 episodes, anyway ... it will surprise you to smithreens, but explain some of these ideas a lot better ... specially the "different concepts" in music.

Enjoy and have fun ...

Hi,

I have no idea what he just said, but...

Here's what all of you insomniacs have really been waiting for!

All possible scales (for the 12-tone system anyway)

Plus a couple of others just for fun.

Chords in a 7-tone scale - Summary

Chords in a 7-tone scale - Detail

I have others, including a 76 MB(!) monster that includes things like all 19,230 ionian chords that are possible.  Oh well.

craigb
I have no idea what he just said, but... Here's what all of you insomniacs have really been waiting for!

 
Mine was more of an open history ... yours was nitpicking about notes and chords, instead of looking at music from the perspective of 1000 years. Mine is the Mickey Mouse/Goofy version of music history ... whereas yours is simply about playing music!
 
I'm used to it. It's really hard to find folks that play music really well, that also have a nice look at its history! My sister has played the harp with the Santa Barbara Symphony, and she even quit because those folks don't know music ... just a few notes! She's worse than I am on this stuff, and I have even suggested that she put together her own band and do some jazz/rock things so she could break out ... she's too lazy! Go figure! But that wonderfully expensive harp is still standing at mom's house in Santa Barbara and I would love to give it to someone that promised to play it with a rock/jazz band! And show Alan Stivell that more can be done! But saying something like this around here is really eccentric and off the wall ... no one is going to take the time to check out some Alan Stivel! They're too busy defending their 12 notes and chords!
 
 

   Nerd, geek...I don't think those are interchangeable titles but close I guess.
 Nerds are more of a term I ascribe to a socially dysfunctional person who has unusual quirks about them when compared to the general population, like wearing clothes from 1972 or something.
  Geeks are more of a socially dysfunctional person who has traded social ability for learning and who are more comfortable with books and numbers than with people. Usually highly intelligent. 

 Don't know you very well but from what I know I would say you are neither of those but might have some geeky traits. I think most of us here fall into that category. I could be short sighted too;) How else can a person read manuals and bury their nose in a DAW for hours on end?

  Music is both strongly mathlematic and artisic creative. I personally go with more of a feeling and then add the theory afterwards or build the theory around the inspiration or idea. Sometimes I just forego the theory all together, just look at my music lol.

  FWIW us keys/synth players do have the mod wheel to bend notes for a blues type of bend. I usually let the guitar players do that though lol.

Geek works as well (40+ years of programming computers will do that).
 
Pedro will never understand the raw, orgasmic bliss of standing in front of a turned-up Marshall full-stack and just playing a simple A5 power chord...

 Usually when I don't use my spell check and I  type too fast  Craig comes to the rescue. He notices all of the inconsistencies of grammer and spelling.I knew then I was dealing with a geek lol. I say this in the second person but Craig I consider that attention to detail a good trait no matter if it is considered geeky.Also a good sense of humour and an asset to the CH.

  I wish I were a little more geeky sometimes.

starise Geeks are more of a socially dysfunctional person who has traded social ability for learning and who are more comfortable with books and numbers than with people. Usually highly intelligent.

 
Absolutely. I would never question their intelligence or ability. Just the other side of the sky! But it is difficult having discussions beyond the bapu'istic concepts, specially when it turns around to I am, you are not, and vice versa!
 

starise
...
Don't know you very well but from what I know I would say you are neither of those but might have some geeky traits. I think most of us here fall into that category. I could be short sighted too;) How else can a person read manuals and bury their nose in a DAW for hours on end?
...

 
This is the part that is scary for me. I bought, for example, the book on Abelton (the big DAW I have and can't use very well!), and even as it is supposed to be simple, it isn't. All the parts are separated so hard, that you can not think, do, work the simplest thing ... like in plain English, and the old TEAC ... your earphones heard the tracks that were already there and you added something on track 4 or 6 or 8! Very basic and simple stuff ... and yet, the Abelton book doesn't even have a small part about that ... and in fact, asking that here about MC5 ... was the most frustrating experience in my life, and asking for help? ... worse ... even when I offered top dollar!
 
So you know that the whole thing is about ego and ... I know this, and I'm not going to share my secrets with anyone ... and that is one of those chocolate things for 4 year olds, not for people that can teach, help and express themselves. In my book they are not professionals, because the best professionals I ever met? ... they sat and talked and had fun with you! And THEY WERE professionals!
 

starise
...
Music is both strongly mathlematic and artisic creative. I personally go with more of a feeling and then add the theory afterwards or build the theory around the inspiration or idea. Sometimes I just forego the theory all together, just look at my music lol.

 
I like the free form of things ... and their results ... it always sounds fresh and new. I always feel that too many folks, on daw's specially, think that just adding an effect, or changing one little thing here, is the difference, and sometimes this works and mostly it is something just in that person's mind ... but I, or anyone else, do not wish to say anything bad ... the attempt itself is a worthwhile endeavor ... but that person's ability to "get out" and check out the ethers in Mars, or Jupiter ... are limited by ... what they know ... instead of open to what "they don't know". It doesn't mean it's wrong ... it just means that there is more learning that is possible, but telling the Coffee House Forum that Vangelis uses t-spoons in all his albums ... is beyond the conceptual ability of these folks ... how does a serious person like that do a stupid thing? ... well, it ain't stupid!