mixmkr

Anderton
But the tempo engine mapping is in Melodyne, so when you create a Region FX to do Tempo Mapping, Melodyne is the engine that makes it possible...and to carry the analogy further, ARA is the transmission.

so i would be advised to upgrade melodyne for better tempo mapping?

Yes and no. The tempo mapping in Melodyne 2 and 4 Essential is actually pretty amazing as is. The advantage of upgrading to M4 Editor or Studio is you can modify the tempo map if needed...or so I'm told. I've used tempo extraction only with M4 Essential and M2 Studio so far, and have been pretty blown away. I hear it's possible to throw something at Essential that it can't handle, thus necessitating messing with a tempo map, but I haven't run into that situation yet.

hhmmm....and here I thought Cakewalk came up with their own tempo mapping and I was patting their back about it.  The ARA still deserves a round of beers though.  Dang...maybe I will have to bite the bullet and update my Editor2.  I don't know though...working pretty good right now as is.  But...I did try some "slowing down" in places...like ritards...and it was making Melodyne wimper.  Too drastic a change I guess.

well...their update page says:
 
New tempo intelligenceMelodyne 4’s new tempo algorithms detect tempos, time signatures and any changes in tempo more accurately than ever before.

Larry Jones
How effective is this tempo mapping likely to be if all I have to give it is a stereo live recording of a band? In other words, I have no isolated drum track. Has anybody tried this, and what was the result?

I have done this using Editor 2 stand-alone in polyphonic mode on commercial tracks (entire song) and then exported the MIDI and was rather impressive. Polyphonic mode allowed for enough detail to determine tempo (melodic mode failed miserably on the same track). An Editor version or better should be able to do this, but I did back out of upgrading to 4 Studio because the opening time for the same file took 5 times longer than with Editor 2.
 
The method I used for the above is posted here, but the new tempo map conversion should be quicker and do the same thing.

mixmkr
hhmmm....and here I thought Cakewalk came up with their own tempo mapping and I was patting their back about it.  The ARA still deserves a round of beers though.

They definitely deserve a pat on the back. It's difficult to implement, especially as simply as Cakewalk did. It's sort of like someone building something with a hammer and nails...they don't get credit for inventing the hammer and nails, but they get credit for what they built with those tools. 

mixmkr
hhmmm....and here I thought Cakewalk came up with their own tempo mapping and I was patting their back about it.  The ARA still deserves a round of beers though.  Dang...maybe I will have to bite the bullet and update my Editor2.  I don't know though...working pretty good right now as is.  But...I did try some "slowing down" in places...like ritards...and it was making Melodyne wimper.  Too drastic a change I guess.

I've done radical ritards and it worked well, but Melodyne was detecting a rhythm guitar part and in percussion mode. Using melodic mode didn't work.

Anderton
But the tempo engine mapping is in Melodyne, so when you create a Region FX to do Tempo Mapping, Melodyne is the engine that makes it possible...and to carry the analogy further, ARA is the transmission.

Ah, this was the clarification I was about to ask for - thanks, Craig!  I was a bit confused as the original post made it sound like the tempo detection was separate from Melodyne.

mixmkr

Anderton
Don't forget that for tough cases, you should set Melodyne for Percussion mode.

I rarely use Melodyne.  I was stoked because Sonar could do the tempo mapping now...and it's just too easy.  I've been on the fence about upgrading from Editor2 to Studio4, but I don't think I'm going to spend the $150, even if the deal is sweet.

It is totally sweet and well worth the $150. The sound editor is the most amazing thing. You can manipulate sound in a totally different way, plus the two new algorithms make polyphonic note detection even better. Check out the 70 minute video here:
 
http://www.celemony.com/en/melodyne/new-in-melodyne-4
 
scroll down 3/4's of the way, and it is under:
 
Melodyne explained: the First Steps videos

JonD

Anderton
But the tempo engine mapping is in Melodyne, so when you create a Region FX to do Tempo Mapping, Melodyne is the engine that makes it possible...and to carry the analogy further, ARA is the transmission.

Ah, this was the clarification I was about to ask for - thanks, Craig!  I was a bit confused as the original post made it sound like the tempo detection was separate from Melodyne.

Another big benefit of Studio is multi-track. For ironing out the timing on harmonies, or for any timing correction, it's fantastic.
 
At the moment, you have to export the tracks / clips and import them in standalone Melodyne. I'm hoping that ARA will make it possible to integrate this better into SONAR in the future.

Another fan here...    I'm almost finished with my first project that takes full advantage of this very cool ability.  I never would have done anything remotely similar otherwise, but the way timing can push and pull and have everything follow is just sooooooo nice...