• SONAR
  • patch/controller searchback not always?
2016/04/23 17:11:35
xxrich
Greetings!
Driving mostly the Aria player from Sonar Platinum using Garrison patches.  With these, if you don't send controller 1 values, you get no volume, so I'm always setting it in piano roll view, midway or so, along with controller 7.  Sometimes though, depending on where I start playback certain tracks have no volume.  It's been that way for a long time.  Am I missing something?  I don't have an example handy to quantify this.  Maybe if the track is selected there's no controller searchback on it?  It's one of those annoying things that I just put up with (and/or quickly hit my keyboard's modulation wheel:-)).
 
2016/04/23 17:54:32
lorneyb2
With a project open check in Preferences - Project - Midi
Under Other Options make sure you have "Patch/Contoler Searchback before play starts"  box checked.
The other possibility is that if you have Echo on for the track it will be accessing the state of you volume wheel or pedal for its input source.
2016/04/23 17:59:49
xxrich
Yeah, checked the preferences 100 times over many months:-)
The echo I did not know, as I never mess with it.  They are all "off".
It appears random.  Perhaps the controllers remain back "set" just for or within each take?  That might explain the apparent randomness of it all.
2016/04/23 18:14:17
azslow3
Check the whole thread with this post:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3335939
Either that is related to your issue is an open question, but you can read there we was really unable to understand from where it comes.
 
But if I correctly understand your "workaround", we can try to automate it. It is possible to use MIDI FX to inject some events. With such "FX" inserted into MIDI track, we can send CC1 and CC7 with predefined values every time you start playback. Since there is no source to determine the value (MIDI FX can not "look back"), both values will be constant. But it is possible to make them FX parameters and so different for each particular track. Do you think that can help?
 
If you agree to give that approach a try, technically you will need to follow the video from http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,286.0.html . The functionality will be in one of example presets then (to avoid misunderstanding, it is not yet there, but I can add it without significant time investment).
2016/04/23 18:29:47
williamcopper
Yes, as Aslow says, it's real, and still mysterious.      His finding that there must be notes in the lookback region for controllers, including patch changes, to be read, may be significant, though I still think there are other issues.
 
Also, despite many naysayers, I think the disappearance of controller values in PRV after a period of time indicates a lookback problem too.  
 
It is a PITA because you can be working on a project, in the middle somewhere, and be hearing a different set of controllers/patch changes than will be used if the project is played or rendered from the beginning.
 
2016/04/23 20:00:13
xxrich
williamcopper
 
It is a PITA because you can be working on a project, in the middle somewhere, and be hearing a different set of controllers/patch changes than will be used if the project is played or rendered from the beginning.




Absolutely that is the challenge!!!  Given that others have seen it too, I feel better.  I suspect it's a combination of things or a certain set of circumstances that causes it to occur.  The worse possible bug to find.  So if I start play from the beginning - it's fine as far as I can tell.  But of course that's not a very practical solution while composing:-)
 
I'll check the other thread.  Never thought of using a midi FX to get through it.  Very clever.
2016/04/23 21:17:02
tenfoot
Have you unchecked 'zero all controller's on stop'? This is what usually causes level problems with vsti synths. With that unchecked you will not need to resend your controller levels every time playback restarts.
 
https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X2&language=3&help=Playback.33.html
 
2016/04/23 21:38:08
williamcopper
That, zero all controllers, should make no difference on play if lookback really worked -- because, consider: once playback starts, if lookback worked, the controllers would be correctly set to whatever the last valid value was.   If there were no valid value, then zero might not be the best default.     Anyway, I always uncheck 'zero all controllers', though Sonar on a new project earnestly resets the damn option, ie., sets it ON again.    Like so much of sonar's default behaviour, a bad choice. 
2016/04/23 22:37:09
tenfoot
williamcopper
That, zero all controllers, should make no difference on play if lookback really worked -- because, consider: once playback starts, if lookback worked, the controllers would be correctly set to whatever the last valid value was.   If there were no valid value, then zero might not be the best default.     Anyway, I always uncheck 'zero all controllers', though Sonar on a new project earnestly resets the damn option, ie., sets it ON again.    Like so much of sonar's default behaviour, a bad choice. 





It makes a huge difference - with vsti's there is no reason whatsoever that the controller need ever be inserted unless you made specific use of its function.. Controller seasrch back is then a moot point, regardless of how well you belleve it does or does not work.
 
It may well solve the OP's immediate problem, so I don't see the value in using the post as yet another opportunity to point out what you personally consider Sonars many bad choices.
2016/04/24 01:45:18
xxrich
Yes, it's checked.  I've been using what used to be called "Cakewalk" for quite some time :-)
 
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