I know re-doing notation doesn't seem to be high on Cakewalks list of priorities, but there might be another way to solve this problem. If a notation editor was licensed or the software was bought, Cakewalk could integrate this into Sonar without having to redo everything from the ground up or worry about breaking code. All you'd need is the ability to pass midi info to and from the notation editor in a similar way to rewire, but with better integration. For example, when you add a staff in the notation editor a midi track appears in Sonar. That midi track can then be linked to a VST. Then the midi would come from the notation program and play through the VST in sonar. Also allow a fast bounce of all the midi from the notation editor to Sonar, so that after we are done composing we can close the editor to free resources. Sonar should also be able to send midi files to the notation program quickly, so that something played into Sonar can be turned into notation easily. This would be useful to song writers as they could play a piano part and sing in their parts. Using melodyne they could extract midi from their voice and then use that voice and piano midi data to make sheet music quickly and easily. The same could be done with other types of music too, but that was a simple example.
 
These 3 programs would all seem to fit the bill
http://www.sionsoft.com/qse2lit.html  Quickscore elite
http://sonicscores.com/products/overture/ Overture 4
http://www.notation.com/NotationComposer.php Notation composer
 
Of course buying Finale or Sibalius is out of the question, but these 3 programs seem to have features like midi CC editing and midi score import that people want. Since they aren't owned by big companies they might be willing to sell the software or at least license it for a reasonable fee. These aren't the prettiest notation programs, but they all seem to work correctly. If Cakewalk could get these working in the way I outlined above I think a lot of people would stop complaining and many people would switch to Sonar from other DAWs. Since melodyne was integrated seamlessly with Sonar I don't think it is far fetched to do the same thing with a notation program.

Chandler
Cakewalk could integrate this into Sonar without having to redo everything from the ground up or worry about breaking code.

(Not speaking for Cakewalk) but I suspect what seems like an easy thing to do (the line above, from your post) is actually the lion's share of the effort.
How it integrates from a user standpoint would also present a hurdle. (if user commands within the Notation program differ from how things are done in SONAR, etc.)
Not trying to discourage the suggestion at all. I am all for improvements to SONAR's notation program however it is best accomplished.

Maybe just fixing rewire with midi support would be sufficient to rewire a notation client into Sonar.
 
I read people rewire Sibelius into Reaper. Even Sibelius First can do this as I understand.
 
I looked at Notion a year or so ago - and talked to them. They did not even understand what I was talking about - all focused on rewire audio. Really odd.
 
But Presonus buying Notion probably mean some integration in StudioOne.

Brando
(Not speaking for Cakewalk) but I suspect what seems like an easy thing to do (the line above, from your post) is actually the lion's share of the effort.
How it integrates from a user standpoint would also present a hurdle. (if user commands within the Notation program differ from how things are done in SONAR, etc.)
Not trying to discourage the suggestion at all. I am all for improvements to SONAR's notation program however it is best accomplished.

Of course it won't be simple, but they should be able to do it because they've already done something similar in the past. They integrated melodyne  recently and that passes midi from an external program to sonar. As for user integration, of course that could be a problem, but to me that is a small annoyance that I may or may not even notice, but the current problems with notation in Sonar cost me an others multiple hours on each project. Comparatively having to remember a few different shortcuts is a small thing.
 
Better rewrite support would be nice, but a tight integration would be better. I'd rather have something that would setup midi connections automatically and bounce thing automatically rather than have to record the whole peice manually from a notation editor.
 
The reason I think licensing a notation editor is a good idea is because it's a realistic solution to sonar's notation problems. right now they don't have anyone who knows how to make a new notation editor or even fix the old one. They'll have to hire a new person/team just to fix it, which I have a feeling they won't do. If they license one, all they have to do is find a way to pass midi between the 2 programs and have a few commands from each program tigger something in the opposite program. Cakewalk has people working for them now that know how to do this. Based upon Cakewalk's current behavior this seems like the easiest way to get better notation in Sonar.

Integrating Melodyne is relatively trivial compared to integrating an external notation engine. Changing it to work as a Region effect would have been relatively straightforward as Melodyne was already designed to be used as a plugin and can use the usual methods to exchange data - monitoring one audio stream on the way in, outputting a new audio stream on the way out, and providing a drag-and-drop way to create MIDI files (the same as EZPlayer does, and maybe even the integrated browser). What Melodyne isn't doing is altering your project itself or creating new data within it, which is what a notation editor would need to do.
 
But what would definitely be feasible is to have a plugin which is basically a notation editor that provides a MIDI output which can be routed into whichever VSTi you want. Think something like EZPlayer, except that instead of a browser of drum loops that get routed to a drum synth, it's got a staff and editing tools, and you route the output to Symphonic Orchestra (or whatever you like).

Yes I agree Kylotan - I bought Notion and Progression and have tried rewiring them in SONAR. Kludged solution at best. Maybe the Rewire spec allows for MIDI out from a rewired application like it would from a VST/VSTi and it's just not implemented by either Presonus/Notion or Cakewalk. Dunno. To me what would be PERFECT would be to have Notion or Progression available as a VSTi within SONAR. Enable MIDI out, avoid all the instrument crap within Notion, and use the instruments of my choice within SONAR. Instead, you have to load the VSTi into Notion, which negates any advantage of having it rewired in the first place. I tend to use either Notion or Progression standalone these days and use them exclusively when I need to see something notated.
Big +1

Thinking about this some more, this would seem to be a SONAR limitation. If importing a Rewire Instrument (in this case, NOTION) allowed selection of the same "Enable MIDI Out" option that is available for VSTi, I believe a user should be able to edit in NOTION (or whatever) directly to a MIDI track in SONAR, audition using the VSTi of their choice, etc etc. The capability governing MIDI in and out between SONAR and Notion is working, but it's insufficient to do what is necessary to enable meaningful staff editing in SONAR with a rewire application. Don't know if someone from Cake (Noel?) might see this and care to comment?>

Are there any examples of Rewire being able to send editing events? Or is it purely MIDI, audio, and transport?

Kylotan
 What Melodyne isn't doing is altering your project itself or creating new data within it, which is what a notation editor would need to do.
 
But what would definitely be feasible is to have a plugin which is basically a notation editor that provides a MIDI output which can be routed into whichever VSTi you want. Think something like EZPlayer, except that instead of a browser of drum loops that get routed to a drum synth, it's got a staff and editing tools, and you route the output to Symphonic Orchestra (or whatever you like).

Brando
Yes I agree Kylotan - I bought Notion and Progression and have tried rewiring them in SONAR. Kludged solution at best. Maybe the Rewire spec allows for MIDI out from a rewired application like it would from a VST/VSTi and it's just not implemented by either Presonus/Notion or Cakewalk. Dunno. To me what would be PERFECT would be to have Notion or Progression available as a VSTi within SONAR. Enable MIDI out, avoid all the instrument crap within Notion, and use the instruments of my choice within SONAR. Instead, you have to load the VSTi into Notion, which negates any advantage of having it rewired in the first place. I tend to use either Notion or Progression standalone these days and use them exclusively when I need to see something notated.
Big +1

 
This is what I stated above. The notation program doesn't have to write data directly to Sonar, it only has to send midi data and have Sonar play it, just like any other midi controller. It would work in the same way as rewire, but of course it would be easier to use and have extra features. The reason I choose the editors above is because you can edit things like midi CC data within the program, so you wouldn't have to write anything to Sonar. If it were integrated in Sonar, you'd be able to do things like fast bounces and automatic midi track creation, which would save a lot of time and avoid potential pitfalls that could come along with just passing midi. All notation programs play midi and Sonar can receive midi, so it shouldn't be that hard to route the midi stream into a Sonar midi track. Just that by itself solves 90% of the problems people have with notation in Sonar. Of course I'd like a great native Sonar notation editor, but at this point we can't even get fixes. This seems like the fastest and easiest way to solve people's problems.

Chandler
 
This is what I stated above. The notation program doesn't have to write data directly to Sonar, it only has to send midi data and have Sonar play it, just like any other midi controller. It would work in the same way as rewire, but of course it would be easier to use and have extra features. The reason I choose the editors above is because you can edit things like midi CC data within the program, so you wouldn't have to write anything to Sonar. If it were integrated in Sonar, you'd be able to do things like fast bounces and automatic midi track creation, which would save a lot of time and avoid potential pitfalls that could come along with just passing midi. All notation programs play midi and Sonar can receive midi, so it shouldn't be that hard to route the midi stream into a Sonar midi track. Just that by itself solves 90% of the problems people have with notation in Sonar. Of course I'd like a great native Sonar notation editor, but at this point we can't even get fixes. This seems like the fastest and easiest way to solve people's problems.

The path every notation program went is that way - doubling what's in a daw already.
 
Talked to people at Finale 12 years ago - to do what you ask for - integrate into existing daw software. But no, they doubled up making audio integrated into their software instead.
 
The natural extension is pretty much doing what Sonar staff view do now - but provide every bit that full fledged notation software do. 
 
To move midi editing, even a tiny step, away from daw - no thanks.
That would make less a recording tool.
 
But best if both daw and notation can run as rewire host and rewire client - then everybody can work as they prefer. From staff or from recording tape machine as base.
 
For me the notation is the very last step - getting what's recorded on paper to register a song, provide staff and melody+lyrics for vocalist preparing to record, staff for hired people doing horns or whatever.
 
ARA - audio randow access - is something that Celemony developed for exchanging audio back and forth between a plugin and daw. Now in Sonar, but developed for melodyne needs really.
 
So the same thing for midi - what a treat that would be, for notation and other stuff too. Notation want the midi and takes it - and puts back. So a new MRA - midi random access - standard developed by Cakewalk maybe. So many midi purposes would be extended by this.