jpetersen
What is pre fade send?
 
I guess it's just a case of Sonar going wonky again.
 
I'll bundle the project as a zip and submit a bug report.

Just in case you missed jb101's excellent advice:
 

jb101
When I encounter an issue with software, I tend to take the initial stance that I have misunderstood something, rather than shout "It's a bug!" from the rooftops. 99/100, it is user error on my part.

If you don't know what a pre-fade send is, how can you possibly rule it out and declare a bug? 
 
As with any mixer, pre fade sends are sourced after the gain knob but before the fader. As a result, the channel fader will have no effect on the amount of signal that is sent. It is controlled independently by only the send level. Post fade sends, on the other hand, are sourced after the fader, and will be controlled accordingly.
 
A little time with the user guide will save you much angst and confusion, and may well reduce your expanding list of 'bugs' :)

tenfoot
A little time with the user guide will save you much angst and confusion, and may well reduce your expanding list of 'bugs' :)

Changing the level on an instrument is such a common operation that it's very hard to believe there's a bug. If there was, at least one other person would have encountered this and posted about it, or at least one other person would be able to reproduce it.

Anderton
Changing the level on an instrument is such a common operation that it's very hard to believe there's a bug. If there was, at least one other person would have encountered this and posted about it, or at least one other person would be able to reproduce it.

Indeed Craig - there would be much grumbling!  I personally checked this particular function several hundred times today:)
 

tenfoot

jpetersen
What is pre fade send?
 
I guess it's just a case of Sonar going wonky again.
 
I'll bundle the project as a zip and submit a bug report.

Just in case you missed jb101's excellent advice:
 

jb101
When I encounter an issue with software, I tend to take the initial stance that I have misunderstood something, rather than shout "It's a bug!" from the rooftops. 99/100, it is user error on my part.

If you don't know what a pre-fade send is, how can you possibly rule it out and declare a bug? 
 
As with any mixer, pre fade sends are sourced after the gain knob but before the fader. As a result, the channel fader will have no effect on the amount of signal that is sent. It is controlled independently by only the send level. Post fade sends, on the other hand, are sourced after the fader, and will be controlled accordingly.
 
A little time with the user guide will save you much angst and confusion, and may well reduce your expanding list of 'bugs' :)

Holy mackerel, it was just a cautious question!
It could very well be that this is a known issue and already reported!
Why is it that whenever someone asks for help everybody jumps down their throat?
 
Sheesh.
 
Anyway.
 
I have looked up "pre-fade send" in the help and 2 results came up: AUD.INI and Changing Track Settings.
 
In Changing Track Settings, there are two areas: Audio track parameters and Midi track parameters. "pre-fade send" only appears in the Audio track parameters.
 
There are four screenshots of the controls, with each one labeled with a letter and named underneath the screenshot.
Nowhere is anything resembling "pre-fade send" mentioned.
 
This is followed by a table summarizing the different audio track parameters and what they do.
The phrase "pre-fade send" (or parts of it) appear in the rows labeled:
 
Gain
Send Enable
Send Level
Send Pan, and
Send destination.
 
None of these descriptions appear in the screen shots, nor are the table rows cross-referenced to the letters in the screen-shot labels. So now I know what it is, but not how to do it (or undo it, in my case).
 
Guys, is it really plausible that I accidentally switched this on?
 

Anderton
Changing the level on an instrument is such a common operation that it's very hard to believe there's a bug. If there was, at least one other person would have encountered this and posted about it, or at least one other person would be able to reproduce it.

Craig, you might remember the Loop Constructor bug I ran into and you kindly reported on my behalf.
 
Loop constructor also has been around for the longest time and yet it only started to fail when I followed one of your tips of the week. And the longer I used it, the worse the behavior became.
 
So in this project, possibly I did something that caused - i don't know - a register pointer to get the wrong value, a memory leak or any number of things that happen when a user does a combination of things that the programmer did not foresee.
 
 I will wait a while in case someone can give me some help on the pre-fade thing, then I will report a bug and include my project.

jpetersen

tenfoot

jpetersen
What is pre fade send?
 
I guess it's just a case of Sonar going wonky again.
 
I'll bundle the project as a zip and submit a bug report.

Just in case you missed jb101's excellent advice:
 

jb101
A little time with the user guide will save you much angst and confusion, and may well reduce your expanding list of 'bugs' :)

Holy mackerel, it was just a cautious question!
It could very well be that this is a known issue and already reported!
Why is it that whenever someone asks for help everybody jumps down their throat?
 

 
Because you assumed it was a bug ("I guess it's just a case of Sonar going wonky again. I'll bundle the project as a zip and submit a bug report"), when really, it seems highly unlikely that it's a bug because as I pointed out, this is such a common operation you'd think at least one other person would have brought this up...in fact if it really was a bug, the forums would be lit up with anyone who uses virtual instruments (as it should be if this was the case).
 
If I insert SI Strings as a simple instrument track, the level fader works exactly as expected. I predict that will be the experience of anyone else who inserts SI Strings as a simple instrument track.
 
So I think what concerns people is you will now submit something that is likely not a bug and I doubt you will include steps to reproduce, because if you could, then you would list them here so people can troubleshoot your problem. Realistically, no one here has any idea of what you did before or after encountering this issue. As a result, all the bug report will do is likely waste CW's time and divert attention from reproducible bugs they're working on, which impacts actual issues that do affect SONAR users. Hence the concern about "false alarms."
 
 
 

Edit - Redundant post. What Craig said whilst I was typing oh so slowly on my tablet!

Anderton
Because you assumed it was a bug ("I guess it's just a case of Sonar going wonky again. I'll bundle the project as a zip and submit a bug report"), ...

I stated that AFTER the first accusations came. Anyway, back to the matter in hand.

Anderton
...when really, it seems highly unlikely that it's a bug because as I pointed out, this is such a common operation you'd think at least one other person would have brought this up...in fact if it really was a bug, the forums would be lit up with anyone who uses virtual instruments (as it should be if this was the case).
 
If I insert SI Strings as a simple instrument track, the level fader works exactly as expected. I predict that will be the experience of anyone else who inserts SI Strings as a simple instrument track.
 

 Yes, as I said, I also cannot reproduce it either, with a fresh project.

Anderton
So I think what concerns people is you will now submit something that is likely not a bug and I doubt you will include steps to reproduce, because if you could, then you would list them here so people can troubleshoot your problem. Realistically, no one here has any idea of what you did before or after encountering this issue. As a result, all the bug report will do is likely waste CW's time and divert attention from reproducible bugs they're working on, which impacts actual issues that do affect SONAR users. Hence the concern about "false alarms."
 

After 4 hours working, NOBODY can remember what combination of actions they carried out.
But OK, I don't want to waste anyone's time.
 
 

"Guys, is it really plausible that I accidentally switched this on?"
 
It's possible.
 
Do you have any sends enabled on this track?
From memory, because I'm not at my DAW, POST fade sends shine a bright blue (which look like an on/off button but it's not). If you attempt to switch it "off" you'll actually engage it as a PRE fade send.
 
If there are no sends then the question is moot and your problem is somewhere else

Just to make sure, you mean that greyed-out box with SENDS and a plus sign?
No.
 
I currently only have a pure audio bass and audio guitar track, a stereo midi drum track (EZ-Drummer, but I put the midi notes myself with a mouse), and two midi SI String Section tracks (still pointing to the same VST instance at the moment, will fix soon...)
 
No FX, nothing fancy yet.