• SONAR
  • Soooo...... Anything new and improved for those of us still using X3 (and missing 8.5.3)? (p.5)
2015/04/20 15:43:19
dubdisciple
Microsoft is not going back to fix any lingering issues with windows XP ( the dominant OS when 8.5.3) was introduced so I think it is insane to expect fixes to 8.5.3. I doubt any company goes back that far to fix bugs With the exception of products that have an extremely slow development life
2015/04/20 15:55:34
Tripecac
Perhaps this will explain the "OP" perspective:
 
My music making is very basic (which Larry Jones probably noticed).  I keep the piano roll on the left monitor and the track view on the right monitor.  I pick some [virtual] instruments in Kontakt or Dimension, and then improvise some ideas, copy-and-paste the ones I like, and occasionally add vocals, or a tiny bit of guitar.  Usually my songs end up being 100% soft synth.
 
I like to work quickly, fixing my sloppy performances while the song is playing back.  So, being able to quickly adjust note positions, volumes, and durations "on the fly" is critical to me.  This is where X1/2/3 has been aggravating me.  I hate having to ctrl-right click in order to edit note properties.  Why can't I just right click, like in the older version of Sonar?  And why do I have to shift-drag in order to change selected notes' volumes?  Why can't I just drag?  And how about setting note offsets?  Why do I have to open the inspector to edit some track properties?  In the old days we didn't. And why has it become harder to use volume envelopes?  I liked them the old way, and wish I could force Sonar to behave that way again.  But I can't.  It's this lack of customizability which aggravates me.
 
And whatever happened to CAL?  I still use CAL scripts all the time, but CAL support has dwindled rather than improved.  I would love it if Cakewalk made it easy to create CAL scripts which help us "fix" our "usual" mistakes in real time.  I'm a programmer, so CAL and Studioware and those other "geeky" tools are part of what attracted me to Cakewalk/Sonar in the old days (as opposed to the more Apple-based products).  But nowadays Cakewalk seems to aim more at the "new gen" of computer users, the ones who don't want to program their own interfaces.  I can understand that we geeks represent a decreasing market share, but I wish Cakewalk would at least "throw us a bone" every now and then by giving us tools to customize Sonar the way we want.
 
Sorry if my geeky preferences come across as "idiotic" or "stupid" or "ignorant" or " lazy" or "baloney" (ahem) but
I really can't help that's I'm more of a nerdy type than an "artsy" type (as Larry probably noticed too).  My musical motto is, after all, "make lots of music, at least some of it good".  I like to make music because the act of making music is fun for me.  And, occasionally, I get lucky and create a bit of music that I think is fun to listen to later.  But it's the process which is the fun part, not necessarily the end result.  Perhaps this is the definition of a hobbyist?
What I want is a sequencer which is super-easy and efficient to use, and then a really cool sound bank.  Kontakt is great, and Dimension Pro is nice for a change.  I don't care about making my own sounds, and I hate the process of mixing and mastering (which Larry probably noticed) so I'm not into a ton of subtle effects or buses or gizmos that take me away from the "fun" part, which is improvising and stitching sections of music together.  I want to spend more time banging on the keyboard, not less.
 
So, if the new version of Sonar gives me more virtual instruments to play with, then great.  And if the pattern tool makes it easier to create looping beats, then great (although cut-and-paste is pretty darn easy!).  But if the bulk of time with the new version is spent configuring and correcting it (and not in a creative, CAL-like way, but in an annoying, reactive, autoexec.bat-like way) then no, no, no. 
2015/04/20 16:03:29
backwoods
I still wish they made a multi core versionof P5v2, and 64 bit too:)
 
I read in the paper that some sort of group was going to court to argue for the right to maintain old software for which the original companies had gone out of business. This group wanted to get old games running on new computers.
 
Since alot of the old 853 code must still linger in Sonar I cant see how it will ever be evolved unless Cakewalk did it themselves. It doesnt seem like a good way to make money, no matter what goodwill it would generate :)
2015/04/20 16:05:56
interpolated
I think the problem is more do with the development outweighs things that can be improved. However like any DAW, they are left in as they are because they work as is or there is no demand from users for development improvement. Maybe CAL can be used to create seemingly timely project templates on the fly; kind of like plug-in chains work. I was under the impression CAL had some rudimentary power however not to modify the environment to your every will though.
 
One thing that could maybe added would be a more graphical MIDI learn process, so your controllers are visible on a virtual keyboard interface . That's all I have at the moment as it's hard to concentrate listening to The Prodigy.
2015/04/20 18:01:13
Bristol_Jonesey
I like to work quickly, fixing my sloppy performances while the song is playing back.  So, being able to quickly adjust note positions, volumes, and durations "on the fly" is critical to me.  This is where X1/2/3 has been aggravating me.  I hate having to ctrl-right click in order to edit note properties.  Why can't I just right click, like in the older version of Sonar?  And why do I have to shift-drag in order to change selected notes' volumes?  Why can't I just drag?

 
This is very brief as it's bedtime here.
 
But I can do all of this in Splat with having to control or shift click anything.
If a note needs it's position changing, just drag it in the prv.
If a note needs it's volume (velocity) adjusting, just drag it up/down in the controller lane.
 
Also, envelopes are a doddle to use in Splat, as they have been throughout the X series.
Highlight a section - click in the correct area and 4 nodes are created for you instantly. Now you can drag the section up/down, though you do need to use the ctrl key for this.
 
I'll try and get back to this thread tomorrow
2016/04/17 22:36:13
Tripecac
I ended up getting the new Sonar a few months ago, and have been using it exclusively. 
 
Observations so far:
 
1) It doesn't add anything that I use regularly.  In fact, I don't think I've used any of its new features in actual songs.

2) It hasn't fixed any of the bugs (or "quirks") that I was experiencing with older versions.
 
3) It has introduced new bugs (such as the piano roll row colors getting off), and seems even "fiddlier" to use at times, particularly when dealing with real-time editing in the piano roll (which I do all the time).  It also has crashed far more often than X3 ever did.
 
Therefore, to anybody on the fence, I recommend waiting until Cakewalk has made a noticeable (and successful) effort to fix bugs rather than add new, rarely-used features.  Whatever "little" bug fixes they're releasing each month clearly aren't cutting it.  So, from my experience, upgrading has been a waste of money and time. :(
2016/04/17 23:13:54
tenfoot
Tripecac
I ended up getting the new Sonar a few months ago, and have been using it exclusively. 
 
Observations so far:
 
1) It doesn't add anything that I use regularly.  In fact, I don't think I've used any of its new features in actual songs.

2) It hasn't fixed any of the bugs (or "quirks") that I was experiencing with older versions.
 
3) It has introduced new bugs (such as the piano roll row colors getting off), and seems even "fiddlier" to use at times, particularly when dealing with real-time editing in the piano roll (which I do all the time).  It also has crashed far more often than X3 ever did.
 
Therefore, to anybody on the fence, I recommend waiting until Cakewalk has made a noticeable (and successful) effort to fix bugs rather than add new, rarely-used features.  Whatever "little" bug fixes they're releasing each month clearly aren't cutting it.  So, from my experience, upgrading has been a waste of money and time. :(


Sorry to hear you are not happy with the latest Sonar, but I dont think people should be about off trying it as your experience is not neccesarily typical. What you describe as 'rarely used features' are for me some of the best innovations Cakewalk have introduced in a long time (patch points, aux tracks, drum replacer, auto tempo mapping etc). It is also very stable, so if you are having crash issues it might be time for some system trouble shooting!
 
 
2016/04/18 09:43:27
Anderton
tenfoot
Sorry to hear you are not happy with the latest Sonar, but I dont think people should be about off trying it as your experience is not neccesarily typical. What you describe as 'rarely used features' are for me some of the best innovations Cakewalk have introduced in a long time (patch points, aux tracks, drum replacer, auto tempo mapping etc).

 
To be fair, the OP did say at the beginning that he does primarily MIDI and soft synths, where things haven't changed all that much. The dramatic changes - Melodyne, ARA, patch points, Drum Replacer, VocalSync, ProChannel, QuadCurve EQ, Speed Comping, Convolution Reverb, Upsampling, improved Import/Export, DSD, Mix Recall, Synth Recording, etc. are more audio-oriented.
 
It is also very stable, so if you are having crash issues it might be time for some system trouble shooting!

 
Here I agree with you 100%, I can go months without a crash or freeze. That never happened pre-Platinum. But according to his sig he's using the pre-Gibson X1d and X2, which were not exactly known for extreme stability.
 
2016/04/18 10:12:18
Andrew Rossa
Tripecac
I'm a long-time Sonar user (since the ProAudio days).  I use it primarily for MIDI and soft synths.
 
My favorite version was 8.5.3.  X1 and X2 and X3 added "stuff" but didn't improve my productivity or enjoyment of using the program. 
 
Does the new version of Sonar significantly improve the UI for those of us who are mostly dealing with soft synths?  Does it increase the customizability?  Does it give us back some of the control that X1/2/3 took away from us?  Does it improve your overall workflow/efficiency?
 
Or does it just add more "stuff"?


You can try the full version with no limitations for 90 days and experience it for yourself:
 
https://www.cakewalk.com/SONAR-Platinum-Extended-Trial
 
 
2016/04/18 10:26:24
tenfoot
Anderton
tenfoot
Sorry to hear you are not happy with the latest Sonar, but I dont think people should be about off trying it as your experience is not neccesarily typical. What you describe as 'rarely used features' are for me some of the best innovations Cakewalk have introduced in a long time (patch points, aux tracks, drum replacer, auto tempo mapping etc).

 
To be fair, the OP did say at the beginning that he does primarily MIDI and soft synths, where things haven't changed all that much. The dramatic changes - Melodyne, ARA, patch points, Drum Replacer, VocalSync, ProChannel, QuadCurve EQ, Speed Comping, Convolution Reverb, Upsampling, improved Import/Export, DSD, Mix Recall, Synth Recording, etc. are more audio-oriented.
 
It is also very stable, so if you are having crash issues it might be time for some system trouble shooting!

 
Here I agree with you 100%, I can go months without a crash or freeze. That never happened pre-Platinum. But according to his sig he's using the pre-Gibson X1d and X2, which were not exactly known for extreme stability.
 


Fair call - I didn't realise tripecac was referring to midi only features. Improvements there have been less than stellar. Despite the sig he does state that he is using the new Sonar excusively now though.


© 2026 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account