• SONAR
  • Can Cakewalk solve a problem out for Yamaha keyboard owners (p.2)
2016/04/15 19:39:30
igiwigi
Hi Azslow
 
All I know In lamens terms Is your cal script works and If I play a synth with portamento the sweep of the porta is there.
I am not up to speed with tech talk and to me i seem to be going around In circles and not getting a plain answer.
Is there a fix that cakewalk could put permanently into Sonar or is my little problem to little for Cakewalk to answer or even Implement.
I am sorry for not understanding some of your questions.
Surley midi fx would not work on vst/audio track only vst effects. For the Tyros I work with midi not vst,but I can use vst If I want.I want the Tyros to behave as I like its Internal sounds which  have good expression.
I just want to edit my Tyros 5 Midi In Sonar and once happy send the info back to the Tyros 5 correctly as I played It.
Once happy record to audio /wave and Master/finalize.
All other Instruments on the tyros play correctly ,It Is mono sweepy synths that play without the portamento sweep tails that Is bugging me and the notes have to be advanced to make the sweepies work which the cal file does.
I will keep using the cal file as no permanent solution has been found.I will send a request to Cakewalk once there site is unbroken and see what happens.I have a feeling what the answer may be!!!!
 
All I really wnat to know Is why Cakewalk cannot do a fix as your cal script file.
Surely for a programmer It cannot be a hard thing to do.But I cannot really say that as It mabe a difficult thing to do.
Even Led Zeppellin Is having a hard time with Stairway to Heaven!!!!  joke!!
 
All the best
John
2016/04/16 01:41:44
lfm
azslow3
 
"AZ Lua" is Sonar native version of "ReaJS", MIDI only and based on Lua instead of JavaScript. It works like Sonar own MIDI plug-ins, in realtime and as a processor. There are some general problems with DX based MIDI processing, so all such plug-ins have nasty limitations. Markleford (the author of TenCrazy plug-ins) has initiated related discussion more then 10 years ago. Unfortunately, nothing is changed since that time.
 
VST based MIDI processing in Sonar is hard to call a solution, it is dirty and error prone workaround (coming form the fact Sonar converts MIDI to/from DX based representation which is significantly different).
 

I had a feature request more than a year ago for ability to insert vst midi plugins(just using midi in and out) into MFX bays - to use many tools there are available today. It did not get much love though.
 
I mean audio plugin bays allow both DX based and VST plugins - why not for MFX(which is DX) also inserting VST stuff.
 
If I get the core of the problem - isn't there a risk altering this kind of Yamaha specific things into Sonar coding?
If you have to activate certain things through sysex to know it's active - even though there is midi controller for portamento - it could be part of preset in synth and not in midi events at all. Same with mono mode which seem to be the problem in this case.
 
Is it a INF definition for the Yamaha that is to fix this?
Ask synth for state to allow Sonar to make special treatment when portamento and mono mode?
 
My guess is that midi note on/off events are kept as recorded, and different edit situations pair them into note on with duration - and when saved into clip again they become separate note on/off events. So in this generating process - if doing in let's say midi note order they can make order of note offs and ons the same as recorded.
 
What you want is that for Sonar to ensure same sequence order as before editing then - on the same tick?
If a certain notes off was on same tick, but after another notes on - after editing they should have the same order - so portamento will work both upwards and downwards notes.
 
That would introduce a lot of extra processing and building tables for each tick which order was original or something - a table saying which order of notes at that particular tick. 
 
OP explained that this is only for Yamaha, and when portamento is on and when mono mode.
Otherwise fine.
 
Seems very specialized - and maybe a script handling this in realtime is way to go, still?
And you don't have to process every midi clip sending to the Yamaha.
 
As I recall from JS scripting of midi you can read out all events on that tick before sending any back.
So what script has to do is just send possible note off last on each tick - if I got the issue here. For portamento to work in mono synth need a note sounding so it becomes legato as I recall.
 But if this equally could cause other issues is quite possible - so I wonder if that should be the case on all midi. I mean combined with all kinds of controllers and notes on various synths - it could create more problems than it solves.
 
So possible solution might be INF file to Yamaha and do if certain criteria is filled.
 

AUX + Patch points are not MIDI capable, I do not see how they can help in the area.
 

A bit disappointing, I was thinking if activating membership again I would go Pro version to get Aux+Patchpoints. So midi is not part of it - not like Reaper does it then.
 
Either way - http://ddmf.eu Metaplugin is what I use to combine various VST midi plugins and routing midi to various softsynths loaded. But since external gear you can use midi out on Metaplugin combined with softsynths if you want to do that.
 
Metaplugin is also excellent if you want to get midi in through to out, since synths like Dimension Pro does not deliver anything on midi out. So you can chain inside Sonar in this way.
 
Bluecat Audio Patchwork would work too, I guess. Don't remember about midi out on that one.
 
Standard way of routing VSt midi plugins in Sonar has been to introduce an extra softsynth track and pick midi out from that as input to next synth or midi track.
2016/04/16 10:45:18
azslow3
igiwigi
Is there a fix that cakewalk could put permanently into Sonar or is my little problem to little for Cakewalk to answer or even Implement.
I am sorry for not understanding some of your questions.

The answer I do not know since I am not from Cakewalk.
 
But you have one more solution now, http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,286.msg1363.html#msg1363
Install the plug-in and Example presets, one of presets is "Portamento fix". It does the same thing as CALscript (you can also use it as a "Processor", but unlike CAL it is able to work in "real time" (live and during playback from track).
 
2016/04/16 13:03:50
igiwigi
Hi Azslow
Sorry for putting throught the pain again.
I will try your program tonight  and will report back when I have mastered the program.
Once again Thanks for all of your help and IFM for contributing.
Much appreciated.
 
all the best
John
2016/04/17 08:09:35
azslow3
I have uploaded installation video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTddpaGxpBA
Quite some time is invested into it (much more that for the preset...), but at least I do not have to retype these instructions in different threads
2016/04/17 08:23:58
igiwigi
Hi AZslow.
 
I get what you were on about now  and the program sits nicely In the Fx bin.
Imported the file for portamento through the manager and It works flawlessly on my Sonar Professional version.
I like tht better than the cal file.
I cannot thank you enough AZslow MASSIVE THANKS!!!
Why can't Cakewalk put these things in Instead of free loops ,llander and other superficial things???
All the best
John
2016/04/17 09:09:21
azslow3
Hi John,
I am glad it works for you, you are welcome.
One more note: if your export MIDI from Sonar, I am not sure the effect is applied in all situations. But you can apply it manually several ways:
1) "Process"/"Apply effect"/"MIDI effect" from Sonar menu, with track(s) selected, if the effect is in the Track FX bin
2) "Process effect"/"MIDI effects" from the Right click menu on selected clip(s)
3) You can insert the effect into the Clip FX bin instead of track fx bin ("Insert effect"/"MIDI effects" from the Right click menu).
 
(1) is the best in case you do not move clips between tracks, you bypass FX and preset selection during apply and should not care about new material in the track
(2) is pretty much like CAL...
(3) is useful in case your clips are long and you move them between tracks (create new tracks by dragging). You can use normal "Bounce" to permanently apply the fix.
 
igiwigi
Why can't Cakewalk put these things in Instead of free loops ,llander and other superficial things???

Loops and lander are advertisements, the company can include them for close to nothing. Including "free" software is more complicated for companies, for example it is not possible to bundle AZLua, at least not without special agreements. And since free software developers have no side profit unlike "Sonar edition" providers, bundling such software can be quite expensive. Commercially developed, AZ Lua will cost at least $5k (for the source, not per copy, but that is rather conservative estimation), just to get you an idea how "free" free software really is...
2016/04/17 18:18:25
igiwigi
Big Thanks AZslow,much appreciated.
 
All the best
John
2016/04/18 16:50:05
igiwigi
Hi AZslow
 
I have saved a mono synth passage  with the FX plugin and transported to Tyros 5.
The result perfect and no fiddling
Great Stuff.
I will have a look at the other examples  and learn.
The plugin works 100% with the Tyros 5.
 
All the best
john
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