PLEASE CHECK THIS:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3377300

SvenArne
 
 To my ears it must be a lot cleverer than that, since my experience with mastering presets is that they just make a mess unless tweaked to the point were you might as well do it yourself from the get go.

Let me state this: I don't know how to master and I don't want to devote the time needed to learn the art properly.
 
After trying "presets" from mastering plugs, I can certainly say they don't work as well as LandR. So I can agree with Sven that something more must be going on with this technology other than "snake oil."

In case people have not been paying attention the difference in this case (vs. a simple plugin/chain preset) seems to be the analysis being done by the service which then either chooses the most appropriate preset based on the analysis and/or crafts a sonic plan based on the analysis. The analysis is based on some kind of algorithm that sifts through similar mixes that have deemed to have been mastered "well" (by whom I don't know) and I'm seeing it mentioned that this algorithm "learns" as it goes based on masters that have been accepted or rejected by tunes previously run through the system (that part sounds weird because if a bunch of people wanted to they could feed it false data... like a good master they'd say was bad and a bad master they would say is good thus skewing the results like people messing with political pollsters and the like... or people who simply have bad ears/no taste could skew it... one would hope that's been taken into account).
 
That's the difference (supposedly) between a simple preset. The analysis/algorithm making the decisions on WHAT preset or minor adjustments to said presets will be applied acts as the "mastering engineer".
 
From my (admittedly limited... no pun intended) understanding of Mastering the tools used to acheive a good result don't need to be entirely complex at all. Just EQ, compression, maximization/saturation and limiting. It's how it is applied that matters which is where the algorithm comes in.
 
I may be entirely mistaken on some or all of that because I'm just basing that on what I've read so far but that is very different than you or I (and we all have different ears/tastes/skill levels) just slapping a preset on something and calling it a day. I do not think it is that simple.
 
Now if they remove the stupid app from the main installer then none of this matters because people can truly ignore it entire if they don't want to use it.
 
The ONLY thing "forced" about this (and it is indeed "forced" or at least quite inconvenient to avoid) is that app.
 
Everything else is entirely moot.
 
Again... not an endorsement for or argument against LANDR as a product or it's affiliation with Sonar. Just get it out of the main installer (which I'm almost positive will happen after all this hubbub).

That was actually intended for the Newbury thread... I think... I forget now.
 
lol... this is annoying.

I understand the frustations regarding the installation process, but I wish there were two Landr threads; one for the Landr sonic/practical virtues or lack thereof, and one for the sneaky installation woes...

What are people using for posting music/samples on the internet these days? Anything free/cheap with good bitrate (rules out Soundcloud and the good ole Soundclick)? I might want to start a Landr thread using one of my own songs and comparing my mastering chops with Landr!

SvenArne
I understand the frustations regarding the installation process, but I wish there were two Landr threads; one for the Landr sonic/practical virtues or lack thereof, and one for the sneaky installation woes...

What are people using for posting music/samples on the internet these days? Anything free/cheap with good bitrate (rules out Soundcloud and the good ole Soundclick)? I might want to start a Landr thread using one of my own songs and comparing my mastering chops with Landr!

All those streaming site are generally going to add their own compression AFAIK. The only way I know to really circumvent that type of thing is to make your samples downloadable for inspection using services like Dropbox (independent... what I use), Onedrive (Microsoft/Live), GDrive (Google/gmail), etc.
 
Dropbox does seem to have added some streaming browser preview thing for audio/video. Not sure if that plays back the file at the original compression (doubt it) but maybe. I've had issues with it though. The other file sharing services may have developed something similar.
 
I'm actually curious abotu this type of thing myself because obviously that type of tech is advancing... there is also HTML5 streaming players (which is just code that will stream a file directly from your own server/web host server). Not sure what file size limits that has or whether there is compression applied but it's something to look into if you are into web coding. Been meaning to research it more myself.
 
Cheers.

Beepster ..... Now if they remove the stupid app from the main installer then none of this matters because people can truly ignore it entire if they don't want to use it.
 
The ONLY thing "forced" about this (and it is indeed "forced" or at least quite inconvenient to avoid) is that app.
 
Everything else is entirely moot.
 
Again... not an endorsement for or argument against LANDR as a product or it's affiliation with Sonar. Just get it out of the main installer (which I'm almost positive will happen after all this hubbub).

A great post Beepster, I completely agree .. especially with your final paragraph. Those who want it would be good to go and those who don't .. er .. don't so everyone wins.
 
In my case I always download and install manually and always select custom install. After reading the ezine I thought the 'app' was hard-wired into the install so was pleased to find the option not to install there.
 
Not so good for those who were caught out and on uninstalling find it is not a 'clean' uninstall and they are left with registry entries and log files and whatever however small the number may be.
 
To offer constructive comments:
First, a huge thank you to Cakewalk for making this an optional install even though it is part of the main installer. I hope you will continue to do this with any other third party apps.
Secondly, Beepster's suggestion of taking this out of the main installer totally would be good. this way people would have a real choice of downloading and installing.
Thirdly, to the app developer, could you not provide a full, clean uninstaller?
Last, and to those who did uninstall, take a look at 'Search Everything' (https://www.voidtools.com). This tool will find remnants and offer the chance to clean up. Some registry entries may need 'taking ownership'. An internet search will show how.
 
Thanks again Cakewalk for a superb DAW and, again, for giving the no install option with the the app.

Beepster
 
that this algorithm "learns" as it goes based on masters that have been accepted or rejected by tunes previously run through the system (that part sounds weird because if a bunch of people wanted to they could feed it false data... like a good master they'd say was bad and a bad master they would say is good thus skewing the results like people messing with political pollsters and the like... or people who simply have bad ears/no taste could skew it... one would hope that's been taken into account).

 
I don't think the results can be purposely skewed. Sounds like you haven't tried it out yet. You either take it's three different results or you don't.
 
Now when I first tried it I just fed it a mix I had been working on that I also was trying to master. In a hurry, I just opened the project, bounced everything down to a trk and exported that to LandR. I listened to the finished preview and didn't like what I heard. Same day or the next day, I get an email from LandR support suggesting I lower my volumes so that LandR could do a better job on my music. I just blew it off as an attempt of theirs to get me to buy something.
 
But the more I thought about it I had to take a look at the project. Sure enough I had all three of Nomads Analog Mastering Tools on the master bus. I took them off, mixe3d down again, and tried LandR a second time. Results were much better.
 
So I think there is something going on here besides a generic preset slapped on a limiter/eq.

Grem

Beepster
 
that this algorithm "learns" as it goes based on masters that have been accepted or rejected by tunes previously run through the system (that part sounds weird because if a bunch of people wanted to they could feed it false data... like a good master they'd say was bad and a bad master they would say is good thus skewing the results like people messing with political pollsters and the like... or people who simply have bad ears/no taste could skew it... one would hope that's been taken into account).

 
I don't think the results can be purposely skewed. Sounds like you haven't tried it out yet. You either take it's three different results or you don't.
 
Now when I first tried it I just fed it a mix I had been working on that I also was trying to master. In a hurry, I just opened the project, bounced everything down to a trk and exported that to LandR. I listened to the finished preview and didn't like what I heard. Same day or the next day, I get an email from LandR support suggesting I lower my volumes so that LandR could do a better job on my music. I just blew it off as an attempt of theirs to get me to buy something.
 
But the more I thought about it I had to take a look at the project. Sure enough I had all three of Nomads Analog Mastering Tools on the master bus. I took them off, mixe3d down again, and tried LandR a second time. Results were much better.
 
So I think there is something going on here besides a generic preset slapped on a limiter/eq.

Hiya, Grem. Interesting.
 
I guess to investigate what you said a little more... did you actually click something on their site (or whatever) saying you didn't like the results it produced (like a "Try again" or a "I Ain't Paying for That" option? Just because getting that email sounds like maybe you rejected something and they contacted you with suggestions on how to get better results (and did it sound like an auto response or a human response?).
 
If that's not the case and you got the email unprompted... that's another dynamic to the service to be considered (for the better or worse... currently benign in my eyes).
 
And yes. I have not used it yet. I am curious about the technology (because I'm a curious fellow) and do not reject the service as others have (because as everyone knows I can use all the help I can get and am generally an open minded individual).
 
I guess I am however having my own little one man boycott of it until Cake removes it from the installer and let's me use it how I normally would (via manual install like I do with other online services).
 
I've been paying attention to many of the posts about this (well... the ones from the people I know and trust) and it's been interesting. Might help me, might not (just like many of the tools Cake have introduced over the years).
 
I'm really just trying to make sure the choice remains with us (the users) about what gets downloaded and installed. I've actually been squealing about more (not less) finite control and descriptive info when it comes to the downloads for a while now and that has been being somewhat accomodated. To me this was a shocking and unexpected step backwards in that regard so I'm being a particularly thorny nuisance about that point. I feel it's important.
 
I think it's being paid attention to though and won't elaborate further so once there is confirmation the app is being removed from the main Sonar download I may explore this doohickey further.
 
Cheers. Hope you've been well, dood.

Yes Beeps it sounded like a real person on the email. And it maybe because I just signed up/joined the service that I got a response. Don't really know.
 
Beep Said: did you actually click something on their site (or whatever) saying you didn't like the results it produced (like a "Try again" or a "I Ain't Paying for That" option
 
Nope. Nothing like that. Only choice you get is to listen to your file in it's three different settings, low, medium, high. (People are assuming it's compression levels, and they may be right about that).
 
After that you just select if you want them to make the master (in one of the three settings) or not. If you don't want the mastering done, just close the program and it's over. They give you two free 192 mp3's. The way it works is why people are saying you can preview your mix as many times as you like.
 
Tonight I am going to put the Nomad mastering plugs back on and give it a shot myself and see what I come up with. The master I had them make I have played on three different devices and it sounded good on all of them. Which has been my biggest problem with trying to master my own stuff. Consistent compatibility across devices!!