• SONAR
  • The LANDR Thread (p.33)
2016/03/08 12:45:58
irvin
Anderton
For me, 90% of mastering is about EQ. No preset can analyze the track as well as a good set of ears, and then make the necessary tweaks needed to restore spectral balance. I often use 8 stages of EQ when mastering and sometimes more. No preset can possibly adjust those 8 stages to what an individual piece of music needs.

 
I agree- that's exactly why LANDR is so useless as a 'mastering tool'.
 
In fact, LANDR is not even a tool - tools normally allow tweaking and different degrees of operator control. LANDR is more like an automaton ("a machine that performs a function according to a predetermined set of coded instructions, especially one capable of a range of programmed responses to different circumstances" - wikipaedia).
 
2016/03/08 12:47:05
stxx
garyhb
My 2 cents...
  1. Landr - when I realised it wasn't a plugin but a paid subscription service, I felt a little betrayed. Sonar has become awesome since the intro of the new business model but this diminishes that IMHO. 
  2. I understand Noel's partner argument like Melodyne or Addictive. This is not the same thing at all.   
  3. Having listened to a number of Landr pre-post masters, I really don't like it - everything seems to sound the same!
  4. I haven't seen EBUR128 / ITU BS.1770-3 mentioned yet. How does Landr conform to the CALMS act in the USA or the new European broadcast standards. That's a biggie!
  5. Doesn't do vinyl (I think)
  6. It might be useful for music students or independents on a shoestring budget.
  7. I teach mastering and critical listening skills. Mastering is an excellent process for understanding what makes a great mix - kind of reverse engineering approach. Landr hides this valuable point.  
  8. It shouldn't be integrated. 
  9. If anything, perhaps the Cakewalk team are realising the considerable sense of ownership and loyalty their clients have toward this! 
  10. If you want to offer mastering, consider this:
    1. developing the mastering preset chains and a mastering plugin suite 
    2. offering a mastering flow like Audition does with spectrum analyser and, ITU/EBUR128 LUFS -23 metering (a la TC Electronic /Waves WLM PLus) 
    3. Include a facility for creating Red Book CD output i.e. DDP file, PQ code, CD-Text info 
  11. I'd rather put the money into Sonar for point 10 rather than running a separate mastering DAW.
There, my ...um 5 dollars worth...
 





This (overall) LANDR thread just has me so annoyed.   There  are many things in here that are just crazy.   Also, I have interacted with some LANDR personnel and they are very dedicated to the art of making music!  
 
 LANDR is a tool!   If you don't want to use it, don't.  It doesn't prevent anyone from learning about mastering anymore than using an Ozone preset does.  If someone wants to learn, they'll learn but in the meantime, maybe not at the expense of getting their current projects finished. I happen know a lot about it but find it difficult and time consuming and prefer to leave to it someone (or now something) else.  Thats like saying using a preset on a plugin prevents you from learning how to use the plugin.    
 
How does offering offer LANDR diminish anything?   Its just another choice given to the users, and potentially a very helpful one
 
It IS the same thing as melodyne or Addictive.   SONAR had just made another agreement with a partner to help us make music.  That is all.

LANDR is useful for everyone!  It just depends on where in your workflow you choose to use it.  Its a great way to check your mix along the way. I will go out on a limb and say I bet MOST of us are on low budgets  and with Mastering being a very expensive final and I mean FINAL step.     As Ive said, LANDR sounds better than MOST budget mastering engineers I've encountered including Discmakers and other independents thats Ive tried.  The only consistently better choices are the true pro Mastering houses that charge over 1K for an album.  I don;t have that kind of cash and neither fo my clients.  Problems with independent and lower cost mastering is brittle hi-end, over compressed/limited,  too loud, not loud enough, dull sound.  LANDR:  The sound is even and consistent and if your Mix is exciting, so will your master be.  It may not add the absolutel mahjor release sheen but its pretty close and my music hangs with major releases.  If my song came on after something else, no one would look around and say, " that song sounbd liuke crap and was probably mastered by LANDR"  My LANDR masters maintain the personality "I" put into them.  Period

Why shouldnt it be integrated?   Just don't use it then.  FOr me, I might enjoy the integration and like the fact I don;t have to do separate steps.  It doesnt hurt anyone having it integrated and will only help those who use it.

LANDR is here to stay as is many other AI and technological inovation on the forefront.   Embrace them and learn to move forward with them .  THEY WILL NOT BE GOING AnAY
 
2016/03/08 12:58:25
irvin
stxx
 
 
This (overall) LANDR thread just has me so annoyed.   There  are many things in here that are just crazy.   
LANDR is useful for everyone!  



Yep - a lot of crazy posts in this thread...
2016/03/08 13:03:32
Andrew Rossa
irvin
Anderton
For me, 90% of mastering is about EQ. No preset can analyze the track as well as a good set of ears, and then make the necessary tweaks needed to restore spectral balance. I often use 8 stages of EQ when mastering and sometimes more. No preset can possibly adjust those 8 stages to what an individual piece of music needs.

 
I agree- that's exactly why LANDR is so useless as a 'mastering tool'.
 
In fact, LANDR is not even a tool - tools normally allow tweaking and different degrees of operator control. LANDR is more like an automaton ("a machine that performs a function according to a predetermined set of coded instructions, especially one capable of a range of programmed responses to different circumstances" - wikipaedia).
 


So I guess a hammer or a phillips head screwdriver, or for that matter a saw should not be considered tools?
2016/03/08 13:09:53
Paul P
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
So I guess a hammer or a phillips head screwdriver, or for that matter a saw should not be considered tools?



Don't discount the hand and arm behind those tools.
There don't seem to be many degrees of freedom when using LANDR.
2016/03/08 13:17:24
irvin
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
irvin
Anderton
For me, 90% of mastering is about EQ. No preset can analyze the track as well as a good set of ears, and then make the necessary tweaks needed to restore spectral balance. I often use 8 stages of EQ when mastering and sometimes more. No preset can possibly adjust those 8 stages to what an individual piece of music needs.

 
I agree- that's exactly why LANDR is so useless as a 'mastering tool'.
 
In fact, LANDR is not even a tool - tools normally allow tweaking and different degrees of operator control. LANDR is more like an automaton ("a machine that performs a function according to a predetermined set of coded instructions, especially one capable of a range of programmed responses to different circumstances" - wikipaedia).
 


So I guess a hammer or a phillips head screwdriver, or for that matter a saw should not be considered tools?




A common definition of tool is "a device or implement, especially one held in the hand, used to carry out a particular function." - I'd say a hammer fits the description much better than LANDR. Lander fits the "automaton" definition much better than a hammer. 
 
https://www.google.com/se...es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8
2016/03/08 13:23:54
Anderton
irvin
Anderton
For me, 90% of mastering is about EQ. No preset can analyze the track as well as a good set of ears, and then make the necessary tweaks needed to restore spectral balance. I often use 8 stages of EQ when mastering and sometimes more. No preset can possibly adjust those 8 stages to what an individual piece of music needs.

 
I agree- that's exactly why LANDR is so useless as a 'mastering tool'.

 
I'm glad you agree on the importance of EQ. However, your logic is flawed; it does not follow that tweaking EQ to match a specific piece of music makes LANDR useless, because LANDR does tweak its EQ to match specific pieces of music in specific genres. LANDR's ability to analyze is what makes it far superior to a preset. 
 
I found this out not by speculation, believing LANDR's claims, or believing yours, but by conducting tests. These tests involved feeding in files I created specifically to see if I could confuse LANDR by having excessive EQ in some ranges. As it turned out, LANDR identified those ranges and acted accordingly by attenuating those frequency ranges. The only caveat I added was that LANDR did not reduce them quite as much as I would have, presumably because it assumed I wanted those EQ ranges emphasized or I wouldn't have boosted them.
 
Anyone can conduct this kind of test for themselves so they could prove to their own satisfaction that LANDR is far more than just a "multiband limiter and dynamic EQ in Reaper," as you have claimed.
2016/03/08 13:42:59
irvin
Anderton
irvin
Anderton
For me, 90% of mastering is about EQ. No preset can analyze the track as well as a good set of ears, and then make the necessary tweaks needed to restore spectral balance. 

 
I agree- that's exactly why LANDR is so useless as a 'mastering tool'.

 
I'm glad you agree on the importance of EQ. However, your logic is flawed; it does not follow that tweaking EQ to match a specific piece of music makes LANDR useless, because LANDR does tweak its EQ to match specific pieces of music in specific genres. LANDR's ability to analyze is what makes it far superior to a preset. 
 
 



But LANDR does NOT have a "good set of ears" that you claim are needed for making the "necessary tweaks needed to restore spectral balance" (whatever that means...lol...)
 
2016/03/08 13:53:40
stxx
Geez....  if people don't like , don't use it.  This is about music and listening and what works in the end to get the music across to people.   I'll say this again, do these songs below suffer?   They sound pretty damn good to me and I will say this, I tried and paid quite a lot to have some of these mastered by a "pro" and they sucked!
 
http://allenlind.com/BB/0...20AT%20THE%20DEVIL.mp3
http://allenlind.com/BB/04%20SYNCRONICITY%20II.wav
 
and my fav:
http://allenlind.com/BB/08%20NEVER%20ENOUGH.wav
2016/03/08 13:54:59
irvin
Anderton
Anyone can conduct this kind of test for themselves so they could prove to their own satisfaction that LANDR is far more than just a "multiband limiter and dynamic EQ in Reaper," as you have claimed.



That's what LANDR does, for better or worse.
Anyone can instantly obtain LARDR-quality results by slapping a Dynamic EQ and Limiter combo on the master channel of any DAW (including Reaper, the one being used by LANDR scientists last time they had a public demo) and tweaking to taste for about 15 seconds.
 
I can do it even with 5 pints of rum in my system...lol...and, no, it's not about me being a great "mastering engineer" - it's just that the LANDR bar is so low virtually anyone can easily pass it. 
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