• SONAR
  • so again about Melodyne
2016/04/05 23:07:18
mixmkr
Editor 2 or the new Melodyne 4 with tempo mapping?  I'm thinking that's more useful than the polyphonic stuff, that I've yet to really use. I've struggled too much with Autosnap to make it useable, especially in this kind of context.  I get too much stuff to add tracks too, recorded sans click.
2016/04/06 09:54:43
ampfixer
I'm using whatever version is bundled with Platinum and it will create a tempo map. Audio snap never worked for me and always seemed to struggle with tempo detection. This new drag to timeline feature works like a charm.
2016/04/06 10:28:48
NeoSoul
mixmkr
Editor 2 or the new Melodyne 4 with tempo mapping?  I'm thinking that's more useful than the polyphonic stuff, that I've yet to really use. I've struggled too much with Autosnap to make it useable, especially in this kind of context.  I get too much stuff to add tracks too, recorded sans click.


I personally think it is absurd that you would have to choose one or the other, Editor 2 or the included Melodyne 4 Essentials are very clearly different products with different feature sets.
 
Though, I've read posts that suggests the Melodyne products do not co-exist.
 
I'm contemplating the upgrade from Editor 2 to Studio 4.  This new tempo mapping seems like a must have feature and something I've wanted for a long time.  I don't want to give up the polyphonic stuff, I paid for that feature set.
 
I wonder if anyone has gotten Editor 2 and Essentials 4 to co-exist.   
2016/04/06 11:03:28
orangesporanges
To me, Essentials is such a stripped down version, I would just keep Editor 2. When you decide to take the leap, upgrade to 4. At the time I did it, the difference was $99 or $149. For the cost of a guitar pedal, you get a pretty powerful "virtual vocal pedal" that pretty much does it all. Tempo mapping is great, but to me, taking 4 vocal tracks and working on them at once is awesome. Phrasing, timing, pitch all at once makes things much more intuitive.
2016/04/06 11:54:37
Andrew Rossa
The tempo detection works if you have Editor 2 installed as well. 
2016/04/06 12:21:12
mettelus
?? This feature has been available for 3 years, and SONAR has just now implemented it?
2016/04/06 12:25:31
NeoSoul
mettelus
?? This feature has been available for 3 years, and SONAR has just now implemented it?


I hope we get an answer on that, I just dropped $$ for the Studio Update because this wasn't made clear until a few minutes ago.  I did not want to loose the polyphonic update as a Editor 2 owner, but needed the "new" tempo mapping.  
2016/04/06 12:47:27
wetdentist
i emailed Celemony's support a month ago & still have not heard back from them.  i hope no one else is having installation issues & getting errors upon VST scanning, because Celemony support AIN'T helping
2016/04/06 13:00:04
mettelus
I just confirmed what Andrew said above; and it is, in fact, almost identical to the methodology used by folks when importing tempo maps with M4 just prior to this SONAR release:
 
Example (Say creating a cover):
  1. Open the commercial release in Editor 2 Standalone (must be a .wav file). Even Essential 2 should have this ability (?), but Essential 4 is free to those folks anyway.
  2. Ctrl-A to highlight all notes (I did this in polyphonic mode, but even melodic should work, depending on the material).
  3. Save As... a .mid file. (both notes and tempo map are saved, even in M2).
  4. Close M2 Editor, and launch the saved .mid file with SONAR (should be any version of SONAR actually).
  5. If X3 or newer, TTS-1 will be inserted, routed, and tempo map inserted (provided no MIDI outputs are visible to SONAR).
  6. Create an audio track and import the original wav file.
  7. Scoot the audio to line up with the MIDI if necessary (AFAICT scooting MIDI only adjusts the first tempo map value (1:01:000-second value).... BUT copy/paste special will allow the tempo markers to be moved as well if needed).
  8. Once aligned, the tempo map matches the audio, same as the original workaround (for M4) prior to this SONAR release.
So, Melodyne (Editor) 2 has always had this "capability," it was just not made obvious with a "tempo extraction" menu option as exists now in M4.
 
Quick Edit - I just tried the same with melodic mode (M2 Editor) and the tempo fell apart. When doing the trial, opening an entire song in M4 (Studio) is significantly slower than in M2 (Editor), I think because it is prepping itself for all of the "sound manipulations" included in M4. I admittedly did not search for a solution for this with M4, but the difference went from about 10-15 seconds in M2 (Editor) to well over a minute in M4 (Studio) for the same commercial track. Celemony did confirm via email (twice) that the upgrade to M4 Studio required relinquishing the M2 Editor license, so I would be interested in folks that got them to "co-exist" as well - if someone held two licenses this would make more sense to me.
2016/04/06 14:31:24
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Its very simple, we make choices to add features when they provide the maximum value vs our investment in developing them. While the ARA side of tempo extraction did exist in V2 Melodyne's implementation of it was not quite in the same league as what the latest version of Melodyne does. Version 2 did not even support tempo editing.
As a result in consultation with Celemony we intentionally chose not to implement tempo extraction back then.
Now that tempo analysis is a huge part of Melodyne its was justified for us to do this.
 
Some details from Celemony's site.
Melodyne 4’s new tempo algorithms detect tempos, time signatures and any changes in tempo more accurately than ever before. Melodyne 4 tracks precisely the tempo of a live recording, with all its human inconstancy. The ensuing click keeps time with the musicians, not the other way around. And still, you enjoy all the practical benefits of a beat-based grid when working in your DAW.
Furthermore, you can curb excessive wandering in tempo without ironing-out the minor fluctuations that lend charm to a live performance. You can also synchronize recordings with quite different tempos or variations in tempo.  Melodyne 4 makes working with tempo dead simple, letting you work with greater freedom, in new ways.

 
 
 
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