Hello -
 
So I have an instrument where in the middle bridge of the song, I want to abruptly change a few synth parameters (shorter attack, shorter release, etc...), and I want the change to be instant.
 
To do this, I would imagine first I need to find out the NPRN or MIDI CC of the parameter?  I am unsure of how to do this.

Second, I would need to insert a new value when the Middle bridge of the song comes in...   how exactly do I go about doing this?   I know the Controller pane of the PRV can kind of do this, but I want to enter an exact numerical value for the parameter (not draw it in).  
 
I'm sorry if this is a synth/MIDI programming noob question, I am just struggling with this.
 
Thank You!

SilverBlueMedallion
Hello -
 
So I have an instrument where in the middle bridge of the song, I want to abruptly change a few synth parameters (shorter attack, shorter release, etc...), and I want the change to be instant.
 

Is this a Soft Synth or a hardware synth?.  If it's a hardware synth, you will need to check the MIDI implementation chart for that synth from its user guide..  The standard controller for attack time is CC73 and the standard controller for release time is CC72, but not all Synths respond to these.  Note I use these actual controllers all the time when sequencing Yamaha SW1000XG MIDI files.

If it's a VST synth, then automation might be the way to go....  Just enable write automation for that synth and then move the parameter that you which to change. This will create automation events.  Even if it's a VST synth it still may respond to CC72 and CC73 for release and attack times respectively.

If you which to enter these controller events numerically rather than drawing them in, use the event list view and insert the values manually.

promidi

SilverBlueMedallion
Hello -
 
So I have an instrument where in the middle bridge of the song, I want to abruptly change a few synth parameters (shorter attack, shorter release, etc...), and I want the change to be instant.
 

Is this a Soft Synth or a hardware synth?.  If it's a hardware synth, you will need to check the MIDI implementation chart for that synth from its user guide..  The standard controller for attack time is CC73 and the standard controller for release time is CC72, but not all Synths respond to these.  Note I use these actual controllers all the time when sequencing Yamaha SW1000XG MIDI files.

If it's a VST synth, then automation might be the way to go....  Just enable write automation for that synth and then move the parameter that you which to change. This will create automation events.  Even if it's a VST synth it still may respond to CC72 and CC73 for release and attack times respectively.

If you which to enter these controller events numerically rather than drawing them in, use the event list view and insert the values manually.

Thanks for the reply.  I am working with softsynths only.
 
Well I think what I was looking for is snapshot automation, which right now doesn't seem to be working.  I don't want to record any movements.  I want some parameters to just shift to a new value at a specific point in time.  I thought Snapshot Automation can do this... either I am doing something wrong, or it is broken.
 
Here is my post about that here:

http://forum.cakewalk.com...-m3397040.aspx#3397040

I thought about it and tried to reproduce the issue. I've never used snapshot automation before...didn't really know it existed and thought it might come in handy.
 
First off, I found that the automatable controls for synths can only appear on it's associated audio track. Fine enough there - although for some reason I though they'd be on the midi track.
 
Next I tested the tracks using snapshot automation on pan and volume. This worked as advertised.
 
I tested using snapshot automation on synth controls - no go. This was of course, an assigned knob in the 'assigned controls' section of the undocked synth view.
 
I then manually added the automation lane for the control I was attempting to automate - in this case the tone control of the SI-Electric Piano. Setting it to write automation, hitting play and then moving the control around, both on the synth itself and in the 'assigned controls' knob in the undocked synth view. This worked somewhat as expected, recording the synths control, but the automation lane display was only partially updated. I expected to see level changes hold steady in-between knob rotations, (I had read off). Level changes were properly displayed once playback was stopped.
 
Conclusions:
 

• You can't snapshot automate directly from a synths own controls - the right-click option to snapshot automate only appears for controls assigned in the synthrack window, or the synth's audio track controls (vol, pan, etc.). No problem so far.

• Nothing happens when when right clicking an assigned control in the synth rack and selecting snapshot automation. It's dead - doesn't do anything.

• Not quite sure that automation is being displayed correctly as it's being recorded.

 
Workarounds:
 
Put the automation lane on for the synth control you want to automate, and manually set a node at the now pointer. Set it to whatever % you would the actual control. Be sure to set node types to 'jump'. This will work in the short term.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

SuperG
 
Workarounds:
 
Put the automation lane on for the synth control you want to automate, and manually set a node at the now pointer. Set it to whatever % you would the actual control. Be sure to set node types to 'jump'. This will work in the short term.
 

I would not call this a workaround, I would call it the right way to do this. I do it frequently, it's easy and doesn't just work "in the short term" - it just works. Of course, if you're looking for real-time, while-you're-playing control to snap parameter values to new, preset values... then yes, that would need some MIDI cleverness. 

SuperG
I thought about it and tried to reproduce the issue. I've never used snapshot automation before...didn't really know it existed and thought it might come in handy.
 
First off, I found that the automatable controls for synths can only appear on it's associated audio track. Fine enough there - although for some reason I though they'd be on the midi track.
 
Next I tested the tracks using snapshot automation on pan and volume. This worked as advertised.
 
I tested using snapshot automation on synth controls - no go. This was of course, an assigned knob in the 'assigned controls' section of the undocked synth view.
 
I then manually added the automation lane for the control I was attempting to automate - in this case the tone control of the SI-Electric Piano. Setting it to write automation, hitting play and then moving the control around, both on the synth itself and in the 'assigned controls' knob in the undocked synth view. This worked somewhat as expected, recording the synths control, but the automation lane display was only partially updated. I expected to see level changes hold steady in-between knob rotations, (I had read off). Level changes were properly displayed once playback was stopped.
 
Conclusions:
 

• You can't snapshot automate directly from a synths own controls - the right-click option to snapshot automate only appears for controls assigned in the synthrack window, or the synth's audio track controls (vol, pan, etc.). No problem so far.

• Nothing happens when when right clicking an assigned control in the synth rack and selecting snapshot automation. It's dead - doesn't do anything.

• Not quite sure that automation is being displayed correctly as it's being recorded.

 
Workarounds:
 
Put the automation lane on for the synth control you want to automate, and manually set a node at the now pointer. Set it to whatever % you would the actual control. Be sure to set node types to 'jump'. This will work in the short term.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
Wow, thanks for the extensive testing.  Appreciate it!  At least I know it's not a problem with me!

subtlearts

SuperG
 
Workarounds:
 
Put the automation lane on for the synth control you want to automate, and manually set a node at the now pointer. Set it to whatever % you would the actual control. Be sure to set node types to 'jump'. This will work in the short term.
 

I would not call this a workaround, I would call it the right way to do this. I do it frequently, it's easy and doesn't just work "in the short term" - it just works. Of course, if you're looking for real-time, while-you're-playing control to snap parameter values to new, preset values... then yes, that would need some MIDI cleverness. 

 
OF COURSE it is a problem!   They actually HAVE an "Automation Snapshot" option in the synth rack - AND IT DOES NOTHING!

SilverBlueMedallion
 
Wow, thanks for the extensive testing.  Appreciate it!  At least I know it's not a problem with me!

 
You're welcome!
 
When it comes to tracking down issues, I can get a bit obsessive. I can't help it though, I'm a programmer... 

SuperG

SilverBlueMedallion
 
Wow, thanks for the extensive testing.  Appreciate it!  At least I know it's not a problem with me!

 
You're welcome!
 
When it comes to tracking down issues, I can get a bit obsessive. I can't help it though, I'm a programmer... 

I totally understand.  I am Technical Support for a fairly large software company.  A large portion of my job is documenting technical issues.  Having said that, sometimes my detail is a little light here on the forums as it is what I do all day and I get lazy LOL.   It's like asking a masseuse for a massage after they came home from massaging for 8 hours!  LOL

SilverBlueMedallion
Second, I would need to insert a new value when the Middle bridge of the song comes in...   how exactly do I go about doing this?   I know the Controller pane of the PRV can kind of do this, but I want to enter an exact numerical value for the parameter (not draw it in).

Seems like the Event List view would be ideal for these kinds of ultra-precise applications.