• SONAR
  • Will Sonar integrate with Melodyne 4's new tempo detection? (p.3)
2016/01/23 08:40:08
gswitz
I think in Sonar you are better off using it as a Region Effect. Noel has promised even tighter integration in the next Sonar Release (Manchester (?)) and this includes multi-track functionality.
 
I can't remember a time when two software companies were so carefully tied together. If you like Melodyne, be grateful for Sonar's ARA support. It really makes it a dreamy love affair.
2016/01/23 10:39:11
Boydie
Amen to that

The current implementation is a dream - to add the new features will be a match made in heaven
2016/01/23 11:14:02
mettelus
Man, I got depressed coming across this one... Melodyne's own videos... if you go to http://www.celemony.com/en/melodyne/new-in-melodyne-4 and scroll down to the "Melodyne explained: the First Steps videos" and click on that video, it pops open their video window.
 
At the bottom of that pop-up there is a video listing (starts at "Introduction"), but if you click on the listing and scroll down there is an "ARA - Studio One" and "ARA - Sonar"... although they tried to make the content identical, there is a massive discrepency between those two videos.... tempo.
2016/01/23 19:06:43
gswitz
Nah. It's not a massive diff. You can import the tempo maps to Sonar. Plus, this was pre-Manchester. Let's see what Noel adds in. He mentioned multi-track work in Sonar is on the way. Why not tempo? In the short term, you can already import the tempo to Sonar.
2016/01/24 08:49:45
briandhughes
mettelus
At the bottom of that pop-up there is a video listing (starts at "Introduction"), but if you click on the listing and scroll down there is an "ARA - Studio One" and "ARA - Sonar"... although they tried to make the content identical, there is a massive discrepency between those two videos.... tempo.

The big difference is : You can drag the tempo from the Melodyne Studio plugin to the tempo track in Studio One. I am sure the CW team will come up with something for us.
Brian
2016/01/24 17:55:11
gswitz
I just spent some time playing with the alg. I started with a guitar track I recorded to a AD2 beat and an explicit tempo. There were occasional peaks and valleys that weren't correct.
 
In general it follows the temp fairly well, but I'm not at all sure that I'll be importing any tempo maps from Melodyne. I thought I'd post this just in case anyone was aiming to upgrade to Melodyne just for the tempo detection.
 
Tempo detection might be cool for adding synths or converting midi to sheet music, but I wouldn't use it to add any tempo sync'd effects.
 
It might be interesting to record a track to AD2 then extract the tempo from the guitar track (played to AD2 at a fixed tempo) and sync AD2 to that tempo and see if it sounds better. I have a feeling on this one, but I'd be pleased to be proved wrong. It might get you that subtle push and pull of the tempo which is natural. Then you could set the midi track for AD2 to absolute time and reset the tempo to the flat rate for tempo sync'd effects.
 
It'd be subtle and perhaps cool.
2016/01/24 23:49:43
cparmerlee
gswitz
I started with a guitar track I recorded to a AD2 beat and an explicit tempo. There were occasional peaks and valleys that weren't correct. ... but I'm not at all sure that I'll be importing any tempo maps from Melodyne.



Well, if you recorded to a click track in the first place, I wouldn't think there would be a lot of room for Melodyne's tempo track to improve on things.
 
One thing I am not clear about (and I guess I need to put in the time to experiment) is how this works with multiple tracks.  I assume we are talking about the stand-alone mode of Melodyne.  If you pull in several tracks (piano, gtr, bass and drums), does Melodyne use all of that information to come up with a single tempo map?
2016/01/25 01:03:01
PeterMc
I've been experimenting with multiple tracks in Melodyne 4 Studio standalone. The first track imported is analyzed for tempo, and sets the tempo for that Melodyne project. This can vary every beat, and there are options to smooth it over several bars or beats if required. The second and subsequent tracks imported (if auto-stretch is turned on) are also analyzed for tempo, and then automatically stretched to fit the initial tempo. This has worked very well for two click tracks at 160 bpm and 180 bpm. They line up almost perfectly, although there is some flanging noticeable.
 
There are various tricks for polyphonic material according to the help videos. For example, instruments/vocals that are not particularly rhythmic (such as free or legato sax solos) should be excluded from the mix used for that first track if possible. The tempo is determined as an average from the various notes detected using the DNA algorithm. If some notes are "free" it can weird the averaging out.
 
I'm still playing with this - there's quite a steep learning curve, but I think it's worth it. It seems like a powerful program. The vocal corrections using version 2 over the last couple of years have been very impressive if used carefully.
 
Cheers, Peter.
 
2016/01/25 01:05:57
PeterMc
p.s. To get the analyzed tempo into Sonar, you export the tempo map as a midi file, then open this file in a new Sonar project.
2016/01/25 05:17:35
BRuys
gswitz
I just spent some time playing with the alg. I started with a guitar track I recorded to a AD2 beat and an explicit tempo. There were occasional peaks and valleys that weren't correct.



Did you find the button that does a more comprehensive tempo scan?  I'm not in the studio now, but it's called something like "in depth tempo scan".
 
When I first tried detecting tempo on some pre-recorded tracks, I found it would get it wrong in a few spots.  Hit that little button and it's perfect every time!
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