jpetersen

icontakt
If anyone here suffers from a bug or bugs that were officially confirmed but have been left unfixed for some time, it's better to start a thread about them explaining why you want them fixed now. That's what a Baker recommended, IIRC.

Is this correct?
 
I recall a Baker saying something was being planned, but for now, AFAIK, the correct place is still the Problem Reports and Feature Requests forums, where folks can also vote.
 
I would gladly start threads motivating the fixing of individual bugs but I'm not sure it will be a popular move.

 
Maybe it was before the Problem Reports forum section was introduced when I read the post. At any rate, I think it's all about how to grab the Baker's attention. I often wonder how helpful the Problem Reports forum is to the Bakers, because there are way too many bugs to choose from and people don't vote. The highest rated bug has only 8 votes, and although it was fixed about a year ago the thread is still not marked as "Fixed." The second highest rated bug isn't even a bug, and it should be moved to the Feature & Request forum. These suggest that the Proble Report forum isn't really working. Also, how about the majority of users who don't/can't participate in SONAR forums? I'm sure they'll use the Cakewalk Problem Report Form or a similar form if they are in a non-English speaking country. In whatever method you like, let the Bakers know that you really want the bug fixed. You can bump an existing thread or start a new one yourself, or contact tech support directly (periodically if necessary) and ask why it hasn't been fixed yet (I would call if I were in the U.S.). Anyway, I think it's better to explain to the Bakers why the bug annoys you so much (making the explanation as short and clear-cut as possible would probably help, as the Bakers seem very busy), rather than have philosophical discussions about bugs in general.
 
Another practical action you can take is to highly recommend SONAR in other music forums or purchase channels like Amazon. With higher sales Cakewalk might be able to hire some new stuff and allocate one or two to their bug fix department. Having said that, I personally can't really recommend SONAR yet, especially to those who are just starting out, because it has too many bugs. I guess those who are very happy with SONAR are not heavy users or they don't use competitor DAWs. If you use Take lanes, clip/track automation, etc. heavily you'll realize how buggy SONAR is. Then why is SONAR still my primary DAW? Because it has features/elements that are important to me and they are not available in other DAWs (e.g. Studio One doesn't have a screenset yet, Cubase lacks a professional-looking mixer view). But the competition is severe and I may switch if I find a DAW that beats SONAR overall.
 

jsg
It's not only software. Everything humans make is imperfect in some way or another. Why? Because we humans are imperfect in some way or another; how can imperfect beings created perfect products?

 
That's probably true. But all my hardware gear (digital ones) worked/works as expected and has rarely needed repair.

icontakt

jsg
It's not only software. Everything humans make is imperfect in some way or another. Why? Because we humans are imperfect in some way or another; how can imperfect beings created perfect products?

 
That's probably true. But all my hardware gear (digital ones) worked/works as expected and has rarely needed repair.

Yeah, it's not that bugs won't crop up in software, they will.  My concern is less about the fact that bugs exist and more about how committed the company that makes the software is to fixing the bugs. 

jsg
It's not only software.  Everything humans make is imperfect in some way or another.  Why?  Because we humans are imperfect in some way or another; how can imperfect beings created perfect products? 
 

The dead hand of Plato makes an appearance in the Sonar forum! More of a humanist myself,  so I hold great hope for perfect software in the distant future 

@icontact - I report all my bugs in the official bug reporter. I also include links to threads where more knowledgeable members have helped find the cause and get a repeatable recipe together.
 
Apart from that, a big +1 to all you say. It reflects the way I feel, too.

I agree that the concept of bugfree is nothing more than a noble goal...However, In the prior annual release cycle, there was a break off point where the bugs were known, and the software was stable (to a known degree), and the user community had a solid awareness of what the issues were with that current release... So, previously, if i waited until (say) April to update, i would have the best that Cakewalk can do, and i would know what it was.
 
You are right, sure i do not have to update each month.. and i have not solely due to this issue, however, at any point that i do update, be it monthly, quarterly, semi-annually or even annually, i have just installed software of unknown quality with recently introduced bugs.. simply go back through the releases and see this...each release fixes bugs and introduces new bugs... 
 
I am not advocating going back to an annual release, as the productivity of the bakers has clearly outstripped that system, but the two systems are simply at polar opposites, (one is conservative engineering, and the other is aggressive marketing) and there clearly is scope for a more rational approach.. one that balances QA and stability with new features.. 
 

Anderton

Mystic38
What we currently have with Sonar is a developmental philosophy which on a monthly basis introduces new features and hence ALSO clearly introduces the opportunity for new bugs...  This is just a poor process from a Q&A perspective as at no time is there a known gold release to fall back to, and is significantly inferior a methodology than the prior annual (plus 1-4 maintenance updates).

 
To be fair, there was never a bugless gold release to fall back on. X3 had bugs, and still had bugs after X3e. Ditto SONARs 1 through 8.5.
 
You can either introduce a few new bugs every month, or a whole bunch of bugs every year. No one HAS to update every month. You can do quarterly or yearly updates...or some variation thereof, like immediately downloading the update with patch points if that's something you really want, and waiting for the rest.
 

tenfoot

jsg
It's not only software.  Everything humans make is imperfect in some way or another.  Why?  Because we humans are imperfect in some way or another; how can imperfect beings created perfect products? 
 

The dead hand of Plato makes an appearance in the Sonar forum! More of a humanist myself,  so I hold great hope for perfect software in the distant future 

Well, not exactly.  People and things are perfectible, to some degree.  The problem is time.   Whether we're talking eons, centuries, months or days. 
 
Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com
 

Great 2nd post 
 
I fully understand your username

Mystic38
..... as at no time is there a known gold release to fall back to, ....

This is my main issue with the current system!!
Perfectly described.

M@

Mystic38
..... as at no time is there a known gold release to fall back to, ....

This is my main issue with the current system!!
Perfectly described.

But surely it's not just an issue with the current system per se, it's an issue with all previous systems and in the case of the annual update model, would quite possibly render the entire package useless (think the initial release of X1) and with no rollback possible.