olemon
I should add that the way I was thinking about Take Lanes was part of my problem, but the major confusion had to do with what happened when I stopped recording during a take and all of the previous takes were suddenly split at that point.  What a mess!
 
But, each of those split takes (clips) contain the original take in its entirety.  You can simply select one of those clips and delete it, not the Take Lane itself, but the extra clip that was created within that Take Lane.  Then, slip edit the remaining clip by dragging it out and all of the audio for that take will be there.
 
Why it works that way I don't know, but once I discovered that it did, Take Lanes were no longer confusing.

An easier/cleaner way to do that is to simply Left Click and drag from left to right across the entirety of the clip you want to use in the bottom half of the click.
 
So put your cursor slightly to the left of the clip you want to "heal" and "Promote" and drag across the bottom half to just after the end of the LONGEST clip in the track. This will remove all the splits in all the clips in all the lanes so you can start with full clips.
 
You can "Promote" any of the clips (which means the clip will become audible and all other clips in that time range will be muted) by simply left clicking in the bottom half of the desired clip.
 
When you ARE ready to "comp" together your parts just position your cursor over the bottom half of the clip at the start of the section you want to "promote" (use in your comp) then drag right to where you want the section to end. This will create two splits and "promote" that section so it appears in the Parent Track and all other clips in that section are muted.
 
The splits have auto X-Fades. You can readjust the split points by hovering over the bottom half of the split point (until the cursor turns into the two overlapping Trapezoid looking things) and drag them left/right to get the best edit. Drag up and down on the same area to adjust the steepness of the X-Fade (if you just moved the split you have to release the mouse button momentarily to access the X-Fade). You can also right click on the split to choose a different type of X-Fade (rarely needed).
 
So to simplify, swipe in the bottom half to create your clip segments and/or "heal" sections.
 
Once you have all your splits where you want them just click in the bottom half of the clip sections to "promote" the part you want heard at that time range.
 
It's actually really simple once you get the swipe and promote functions down.
 
Cheers.

olemon

Beepster
If you're muting the tracks and you still hear the audio something else is going on. 

Yeah, it's happened to me.  Once I had a hidden track I forgot to mute....

Ah... yeah that's another possibility too.
 
Joey, look in your Track Manager to see if you have any hidden tracks that you have not muted.
 
In the Track View go to the "Tracks" context menu > Track Manager. Then look through all the tracks listed (incuding inside any closed folders) to see if any are hidden that might be causing the issue. A hidden track will NOT have a checkmark beside it. The Track Manager will also tell you the Mute/Solo/Archive status of each track.
 
Cheers.

Beepster
 
An easier/cleaner way....

Excellent tutorial there, Beepster.  Printing that one.  Thank you!

n/p
 
I might make a vid of how I do it because it might be a little more user friendly than the recommended Cake way... and the vid they have up on the topic moves REALLY fast. I had to watch it a bunch of times and take notes on every little nuance to figure out my workflow. They just breeze past some CRUCIAL info like it's not important... when it really REALLY is.
 
Also they really push the live playback Speedcomping thing which is kind of cool but it's also kind of confusing and as a workflow I find it rather awkward (and it also causes persistent engine stops on my machine which is REALLY annoying).
 
hmm... yeah maybe that will be my next vid.
 
Cheers.

Beepster

kb420
I know that there are some users here that absolutely love Take Lanes.  Personally,  I just want the option to COMPLETELY disable them.  There should be that option for those of us that find them to be cumbersome.

Right click on the Record Button in the Transport module and select "Overwrite". That will record over old parts instead of create new "takes". Or if you mean get rid of the "Comping" scheme but still be able to create multiple takes select "Sound On Sound".
 
You could also go into Preferences and choose the option "Record New Takes in a New Track" or whatever it's called. That will create a new track for each pass you record.
 
All the old options are still there from X2. So the recordings still go into "Lanes" but they'll behave like they did before X3 introduced Comping.
 
Cheers.

I understand all of that and how it works.  I still want to be able to completely disable it for midi loop recording.  

kb420
I understand all of that and how it works.  I still want to be able to completely disable it for midi loop recording.  

So you want to do stuff like record a kick part on one pass, the snare on the next, the hats on the next, etc all into the same track and then have that all appear in one clip?
 
As you may know the only thing that CAN'T happen in Sonar in that workflow is having each pass appear immediately in the same clip BUT if you keep the lanes closed you won't have to look at the new clips/lanes (just the Parent Track which you can pretend is your single clip. Then when you are done pop open the lanes, select the track (to select all the clips) > Right Click > Bounce to Clips.
 
I know some people still have problem with that but that last step takes a second.
 
Whole workflow (for those who don't know)...
 
Set Record Preferences to Sound On Sound and deselect "Mute Previous Take" (or whatever that option is called... the one that mutes all new takes recorded).
 
Arm Track > Set up Loop Points > Start Record
 
On each loop play one section of your part. Keep doing that until the part is built up to how you like (like a drum part).
 
Stop transport > Open Take Lanes > Select the Track (or all the clips you want included) > Right click on one of the clips > Bounce to Clip(s)
 
Only problem is if you make a mistake during the loop record it will remain until you stop transport and delete or undo it.
 
Alternative workflow for that (like if you are still trying things out)...
 
Same thing except set up "Mute Previous Take" and you have to stop Transport before moving on to the next part.
 
So record your kick a bunch of times until it is how you like or you think you've got a good take then record one more pass, stop transport, unmute the good take (Select Clip > Press K or Right Click >Mute/Unmute). Now that take should stay audible.
 
Repeat that process for each element of the track/part.
 
Open take Lanes > Select ONLY the good takes you want included > Right Click > Bounce to Clip(s)
 
Then you can delete all the other lanes (Select all the unwanted Lanes by clicking the Lanes Select area just like you would a track so the selection thingie turns blue). With all the unwanted Lanes select hold Ctrl and click on one of the Take Lanes "Delete" button (the little X on the Lanes control area). That will delete all the selected lanes in one shot.
 
Again YOU may personally know all that so apologies if so but it might be useful to others.
 
Cheers.

Beepster

kb420
I understand all of that and how it works.  I still want to be able to completely disable it for midi loop recording.  

So you want to do stuff like record a kick part on one pass, the snare on the next, the hats on the next, etc all into the same track and then have that all appear in one clip?
 
As you may know the only thing that CAN'T happen in Sonar in that workflow is having each pass appear immediately in the same clip BUT if you keep the lanes closed you won't have to look at the new clips/lanes (just the Parent Track which you can pretend is your single clip. Then when you are done pop open the lanes, select the track (to select all the clips) > Right Click > Bounce to Clips.
 
I know some people still have problem with that but that last step takes a second.
 
Whole workflow (for those who don't know)...
 
Set Record Preferences to Sound On Sound and deselect "Mute Previous Take" (or whatever that option is called... the one that mutes all new takes recorded).
 
Arm Track > Set up Loop Points > Start Record
 
On each loop play one section of your part. Keep doing that until the part is built up to how you like (like a drum part).
 
Stop transport > Open Take Lanes > Select the Track (or all the clips you want included) > Right click on one of the clips > Bounce to Clip(s)
 
Only problem is if you make a mistake during the loop record it will remain until you stop transport and delete or undo it.
 
Alternative workflow for that (like if you are still trying things out)...
 
Same thing except set up "Mute Previous Take" and you have to stop Transport before moving on to the next part.
 
So record your kick a bunch of times until it is how you like or you think you've got a good take then record one more pass, stop transport, unmute the good take (Select Clip > Press K or Right Click >Mute/Unmute). Now that take should stay audible.
 
Repeat that process for each element of the track/part.
 
Open take Lanes > Select ONLY the good takes you want included > Right Click > Bounce to Clip(s)
 
Then you can delete all the other lanes (Select all the unwanted Lanes by clicking the Lanes Select area just like you would a track so the selection thingie turns blue). With all the unwanted Lanes select hold Ctrl and click on one of the Take Lanes "Delete" button (the little X on the Lanes control area). That will delete all the selected lanes in one shot.
 
Again YOU may personally know all that so apologies if so but it might be useful to others.
 
Cheers.

Like I said,  I would still rather have the ability to toggle Take Lanes completely off.  I don't see how that exhausting explanation of yours is any proof that Take Lanes are better or more convenient for midi loop recording than Sonar's previous pre-X series approach.  I know that there are some users that like Take Lanes,  and I can certainly understand why, but I would like to see Cakewalk make that an option that can be toggled off so that there is no need for the extra steps that you so eloquently described and also so that "each pass appear(s) immediately".  

Beepster

kb420
I understand all of that and how it works.  I still want to be able to completely disable it for midi loop recording.  

So you want to do stuff like record a kick part on one pass, the snare on the next, the hats on the next, etc all into the same track and then have that all appear in one clip?
 

No, he wants the midi in no clips at all, just independent midi notes, like the olden days. Not sure I agree with that, but that's my understanding.
 
Regards,
Dan

I never used track layers, and went straight to take lanes. This video by Karl Rose ('Fastbikerboy') nailed it for me, it all made sense after watching it.
 

@kb420  Uh... it's a lot of words but the premise is actually pretty simple.
 
However specifically for MIDI loop recording there could/should be a specific featureset/workflow that is semi separate.
 
I'm envisioning something like a new record mode for MIDI Loop recording whereby you can do what I described except there is an option that allows the user to Accept or Deny the last pass.
 
That way as the parts are built up you can "Accept" the last pass and it remains audible (then you can move on to the next sound layer) or "Deny" will mute or undo the last pass so you can continue on the same part/element without stopping transport.
 
That's really the only major flaw I see for that workflow. However they could eke in another option that allows all this to occur in a single clip. I personally don't see the huge deal about doing a clip bounce after the fact but if that's what people want then of course they should try.
 
As far as "toggling" take lanes or completely removing them... that's not making a lot of sense. What do you mean? You can toggle lanes on/off (show/hide) and as noted you can make it so only one take is created (overwrite and/or create new track instead of lane). The clips have to go somewhere and Layers did the same thing anyway... just differently.
 
If you mean an option to revert BACK to layers... well that would make sense but I doubt that's going to happen at this point. Too many of the tools and workflows are designed around lanes so it would raise a whole host of design issues. It would have to likely be a Global setting and all those design problems taken into consideration for each setting. Mixing Layers and Lanes in the same project or toggling back and forth just wouldn't work AFAICT.
 
For me Layers caused a lot of ridiculous problems and seem to be designed backwards (mute instead of promote) but I can still mostly work the same way as I did with Layers in X1 if I REALLY wanted to.
 
I'm not trying to be a Cake apologist, "RTFM" douche or "fanbois" here. It's just most of the angst I see in regards to lanes really is about them not being understood (and Cake has not helped much conveying how they work most efficiently).
 
Once they are understood there are most definitely things that can be improved but Layers had it's own pile of problems.
 
So, Loop Recording MIDI for the "layer" technique could be improved but just allowing for simple real time mode of Accept/Deny/Mute Last on the fly would fix that.
 
The minimum height size of the lanes is dumb. The always on auto zoom is dumb. Some of the Take Lane MSR stuff is dumb but for MOST stuff, if used properly Lanes tend to be far more efficient and logical... especially with the Comping features. The "Notes" section alone has improved my editing experience immensely. Comping has been brilliant. Multi track grouping is very clever (but could use some improvements IMO).
 
Different strokes and all that but I simply do not see the massive barriers Lanes seem to cause others. I just see old workflows being disrupted after years of use, and believe me I am sympathetic, but the Bakers took a gamble to modernize the workflow in the X series and it's mostly paid off.
 
I manage to make them work... and rather well for most stuff and I'm bungling amateur.