• SONAR
  • Channel Tools Confusion (p.2)
2016/03/04 08:51:02
sharke
Anderton
Think of it this way. Assume you have a mono track. Pan it far right (or far left, depending on your politics). Now pan it to the center. Even though it's still a mono/point source of sound, it will sound wider because it is now in both channels.
 
Now take a stereo signal and move the channel tools faders to the center with no width. It becomes mono. Increase the width parameter on the right channel so that the right channel spans from center to right. The overall sound will appear wider.




 
Regarding your first point, I thought that for a signal to have a perceived width of anything wider than mono, it had to have differences in the left and right channels. So is a center panned mono source really any "wider" than a hard panned source? Unless of course you're talking about the minuscule differences between how the sound is reproduced by different speakers? 
 
In the scenario you then outline, surely you're describing a sound that is already stereo, monoizing it, then re-stereoizing it. So it doesn't actually end up any wider than it was before, does it? I thought that to make a sound wider you had to increase the differences between right and left, either in the time, pitch or frequency domain. Unless you're doing any of those things then surely all you can do is move the existing stereo field around or narrow it? 
2016/03/04 08:57:57
chuckebaby
try clicking that button on your track (the one that looks like the mastercard logo/ 2 circles)
this is what does it for me.
2016/03/04 09:48:46
bitflipper
sharke
I thought that for a signal to have a perceived width of anything wider than mono, it had to have differences in the left and right channels



Bingo.
 
Channel Tools does have the ability to manufacture L/R differences via delays, offering a convenient way to advance or **** one side, or to **** both sides by different amounts. The latter is what the "Increase Width" preset does.
 
This requires that the track's interleave be set to Stereo, even if the recorded data is mono. That allows the plugin's outputs to remain separate during subsequent processing of the track. 
 
The other way Channel Tools can increase width perception is by using its Mid-Side mode to turn the Mid channel down or the Side channel up. This does not manufacture differences, but rather exaggerates whatever differences are already present in a stereo track. It doesn't do anything at all for mono tracks, or for that matter, a stereo track wherein left and right are identical (e.g. recording a mono source to a stereo track).
 
 
[EDIT]
I guess this lame software considers "r e t a r d" a censorable term. Idiots.
2016/03/04 10:41:04
Anderton
sharke
Anderton
Think of it this way. Assume you have a mono track. Pan it far right (or far left, depending on your politics). Now pan it to the center. Even though it's still a mono/point source of sound, it will sound wider because it is now in both channels.
 
Now take a stereo signal and move the channel tools faders to the center with no width. It becomes mono. Increase the width parameter on the right channel so that the right channel spans from center to right. The overall sound will appear wider.




 
Regarding your first point, I thought that for a signal to have a perceived width of anything wider than mono, it had to have differences in the left and right channels.

 
I'm not talking differences between the two channels, try what I describe.
 
Maybe this will make more sense. Feed a mono signal into a mono PA system that has two speakers about 10 feet apart. Stand in between the two speakers. Now turn off the left speaker. The sound will seem narrower. Turn the left speaker back on. The sound will seem wider. That's all channel tools does, unless you introduce time delays.
.
2016/03/04 14:21:26
eric.birchall
Sorry , I didn't intend to reopen the debate on Channel Tools , I'm only a hobbyist and thought I had found something that was different between versions of software. I have checked the bypass status is OK , and converted the track to stereo. As usual reading Craig's notes taught me something I never knew!.
 
But the "mastercard"  button in the console view did the trick!
 
Thanks to everyone
Ric
2016/03/04 14:24:08
scook
eric.birchall
But the "mastercard"  button in the console view did the trick!

It is also available on the track inspector.
2016/03/05 18:37:49
chuckebaby
eric.birchall
Sorry , I didn't intend to reopen the debate on Channel Tools , I'm only a hobbyist and thought I had found something that was different between versions of software. I have checked the bypass status is OK , and converted the track to stereo. As usual reading Craig's notes taught me something I never knew!.
 
But the "mastercard"  button in the console view did the trick!
 
Thanks to everyone
Ric


this is the part where I laugh at everyone for thinking I was an idiot 

 
I knew this was your issue Eric. happens to me as well buddy ;-)
Channels tools is one of my favorite plug ins.
 
take care and happy jamming.
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