M@
I'm not sure I like the way things are evolving.
There are so many small issues adding up that (FOR ME :)) are just not satisfying.
 
- 'Having' to be online
- Multiple 'Integration' of not full-versions of 3rd party software  (Gobbler, Melodyne-essential, AD2, LANDR, TH2...)
- Long time bugs / worksflow killers described by other users in detail  (gfx visibility, arrangement features,..........& many more.) 
- Monthly releases (being released towards end of the month mostly
 
At the moment I'm especially frustrated because I wasn't able to use my (home)studio as much as I want to, so that's part of the reason for my little "rant"

Welcome to the future, everyone will be online all the time. Otherwise, TASCAM still makes some nice multitrack recorders for you.

And you don't have to install any of the Essential items. if you're Mr. Moneybags, you can buy the full versions. the LANDR thing is just in the export menu. Are you going to complain about MP3 export being baked in?
 
And who cares about when the updates are released? they are all about 30 days apart. if they push them all at the beginning of the month, they are all still 30 days apart.
 
None of the things that are "unsatisfying" to you are in any way related to you not being able to use your studio.

SGodfrey
There seem to be quite a few negative posts about LANDR which I find a bit surprising.  Mastering has often been referred to as a "black art" and whilst I'm sure it would be interesting to learn, there can't be that many who have the time and resources (room treatment, tools, etc.) to "master" it (excuse the pun).  There must be plenty of Sonar users out there who's mastering (like me) consists of no more than a bit of light compression (probably using default settings), a cursory attempt at bit of EQ and judicious use of Boost11.  Not terribly advanced in other words.
 
I've always checked the posts about the latest releases each time they've come out and often been amazed at the positive reaction to stuff I thought was of minimal use.  This time I was certain that people would love LANDR and the reaction is quite the opposite.  Go figure!
 
I for one, am really looking forward to hearing what LANDR can do.

Mastering is not a "black art" - it's an art and it is a profession and requires more than pure analytics ... I rather trust ears than algorithms ...
 
<<removed the rest of my original chain of thoughts>>
 
 

I just sent an unready song (with headroom) to LANDR and got a completely bad result without any brillance.
Especially the result sounded mushy. LANDR sounds to me like a cheap compressor and a cheap equalizer.
The result sounds rather worse than the original.
Within 3 minutes and Universal Audio Plugins I get a brilliant balanced result which is much better than LANDR.
LANDR does not replace a Manley Massive Passive or a Fairchild Limiter.
Then maybe it's better for many people to get an TC Finalizer, which will be paid only once.
 
 
 

chriswickens
I pay for Sonar. I don't pay for them to program in useless BLOATWARE. They spent time and man power to integrate this piece of software that could have been better used fixing issues or creating other features in the main program.

Well, some users may find this useful.  I did a test on a recent project.  It took so long to upload it, I didn't think the service was all that practical.  And the results were pretty good, but not clearly better than what I was able to accomplish in a couple of minutes with Ozone.  I then went looking for examples on the LANDR site.  I had to do a bunch of Google searching, but eventually found a page with 8 examples.  Those all seemed really misleading to me because the dB in the mastered versions were all much higher than the levels from the mixes.  You can't make an objective comparison that way.  That seems just a little sleazy to me.
 
However, regarding your point about the investment from Cakewalk's side, given that LANDR is a paid service, it is possible that Cakewalk is sharing in some of that revenue, which would help fund other Sonar developments.

chriswickens
I pay for Sonar. I don't pay for them to program in useless BLOATWARE. They spent time and man power to integrate this piece of software that could have been better used fixing issues or creating other features in the main program.

Like others said if i wanted this I would have installed it. I don't know if I have to install it as I'm not at my DAW but either way it was time and money spent to do it.

I already addressed this in regards to your previous post which said the same thing.

monleo2014
I also have serious doubts with going online to LANDR. I still remember the Gobbler debacle. My thoughts are:
 
Don’t introduce more demos to your professional DAW.

 
It's actually not a demo, the functionality doesn't time out and you can get free previews, which has merit (as described in the eZine) even if you don't choose to buy a mastered version.
 

Instead create a separate mastering section within Sonar. Most DAW’s go that way. Sonar plugs are quit good and underestimated. They can do the job but are often missing adequate and sufficient presets

 
LANDR doesn't take a mastering section within SONAR out of consideration. Some people just want to push a button, some people want to master stuff themselves, I don't see any reason why Cakewalk would not want to accommodate both.
 

I get the impression the bakers are pressed into introducing every month something exotic. I don’t think this is necessary. I will judge Sonar based on what has been accomplished in a year (I paid a year subscription). This highlights also the problem with monthly subscriptions. If the bakers are pressed too much into coming every month with some exotic item, programming time will go into gadgets while the really important things are neglected.

 
In the old model, the Bakers were still coming up with new things every month. The difference was they sat on the shelf while waiting to be rolled into "the big update." The pressure is on any software company to come up with fixes and features, but it's up to them to choose the pace of releases. Also there were two months in a row recently where all the major updates involved optimizations to the existing program. Doing this was well-received by SONAR users so I suspect there will be more. There have been some months with over 50 fixes. What Cakewalk is trying to achieve is a balance of optimizations that existing users will appreciate, while adding functionality that will appeal to new users. 
 

To end on a positive note Sonar Platinum 2015 is the most stable version I've worked with. 

 
I agree, but a lot of that is because of the monthly updates that allow applying fixes and optimizations as soon as they're ready. It's one of the reasons why Cakewalk opted for this model. Any model will have pros and cons, but in Cakewalk's judgement, this one offers more pros than cons.

Paul P
When mastering, you're not changing the sound of your mix, you're refining it.  You certainly shouldn't be fixing it, if that is even possible at the mastering stage.  The whole production should be a linear series of refinements.  I see it as a question of organizing the task at hand and accomplishing it in the most efficient manner, in the least number of steps.

 
As good a definition of mastering as I've seen...
 

M@
Am i missing the point or could people have been using/can use LANDR even without Sonar? Never heard of L&R before and now all if a sudden the majority of Sonar users would (want to) need it?

 
LANDR has been around for a while. Actually online mastering services have been around for a while as well, even Sony and Abbey Road offer it. The difference is LANDR doing it automatically and offering free previews so you can decide if you actually want the resulting master or not.

Not saying it's bad: haven't tried it yet, but why on earth must it be part of Sonar?

 
Think of all the people who complain that SONAR doesn't come with an inherent integrated MP3 export. They find it too much of a hassle to change programs, load the file into Quicktime or whatever, convert it, and then listen to the results which may require switching drivers or importing back into SONAR. That's what you would need to do with LANDR if it wasn't integrated into SONAR.
 
If the next question is "if SONAR can integrate LANDR, why don't they integrate MP# export?" the answer is because there's a license fee for MP3 which would get passed along to users, whether they needed it or not, or had purchased the MP3 encoder years ago (the license doesn't expire) and didn't want to have to keep paying for it over and over again. LANDR has no licensing fee, Cakewalk doesn't have to pay them anything.

FreeFlyBerti 
Mastering is not a "black art" - it's an art and it is a profession and thus usually costs good money to get good results - but these days everything has to be free and of course everybody can do everything ...
 
Being an engineer for 25 yrs I have seen machine-learning algorithms fail so many times to meet acclaimed expectations that I won't hesitate to give this one a miss - so here we go, another negative post on the LANDR introduction ... not thrilled about marketing gimmicks been thrown into paid software, either - there's way too much advertising in this world already

 
A lot of people seem to be missing the point that you get free previews, which they probably don't know because presumably, they reject the concept out of hand without trying it.
 
This has many uses, as described in the eZine. As someone who's mastered hundreds of tracks and even won an award, I welcome the ability for users to get a sense of what their mix will end up like after I do what they ask me to do with their mixes. Just being able to have them hear the diffference between the three different intensities, and be able to tell me "I don't want to squash it, I want it more like the first option" or "I want to win the rock and roll arms race, make it like the third option" would be invaluable feedback before I touch one parameter. It will also minimize the back-and-forth that can happen with some clients because they don't know how the mastering techniques they want will affect their mix. The only real drawback for me at the moment is I can have this advantage only with clients who use SONAR, but I'm sure that will change.
 
LANDR will never replace me. It doesn't do surgical editing or restoration. It won't determine the running order for an album, or splice out that 4 measures of overindulgent guitar soloing in the middle. But it sure will make my life easier when dealing with clients; and neither they nor I have to pay anything to make my life easier. I'm in.
 

I was REALLY hoping TH3 was going to drop this month (as I believe this is the last month on my script).
 
As far as this LANDR thing... meh. I would have much rathered they partnered up with Izotope to get a "Sonar" version of Ozone or even approached Melda Productions about some of their more advanced tools.
 
I hope this doesn't mean mastering tools/improvements are going to continue to be ignored. I kind of find the few dedicated "mastering" plugs we have NEVER make my tunes sound better so I end up using more general plugs (such as Sonitus, Prochannel and Nomad). Of course that is likely more a matter of lack of skill and personal taste however I just find the LP EQ/Multiband (and the Tube Leveler) inevitably add some nasty harshness. There's really not much in the way of analysis either. The QuadCurve flyout is something but it doesn't seem all that precise or informative and the discontinued "Analyst" plugin (which is still really cool for a few reasons) isn't ultra precise either.
 
We could also use some nice warm (or at least more flexible) saturation options.
 
Anyway... point is, although this LANDR thing may be useful for some it's not really what I think folks had in mind when they request more mastering oriented tools.
 
Maybe a better option (for now... until the toolset can be expanded) is to get Craig and a bunch of Baker's with extensive mastering experience (or even tap outside sources and/or some of our forum members like Danny, Jeff and Bit) to sit down and create some good Mastering chains/presets/templates that cover a wide range of styles using the tools we have on hand.
 
I know some templates were released recently for "mastering" but I mean really dig in, create the chains/templates and even get them to write articles/create vids explaining WHY the effects are used and how/why one would go about tweaking them to suit the material. Put it in categories like "Acoustic, Pop/Dance, Pop/Rock, Hard Rock, Metal, Electronica, Hip Hop, Orchestral, Big Band, etc". It could get continually added to. Ya?
 
Also include chains where commonly owned paid Cake plugs like the Concrete Limiter, CA2A and I guess maybe the Softube bundles (or other PC addons) are included to give a bit more flexibility (for those who own those plugs). For example I often use the Concrete Limiter as my main mastering limiter (but also use the Blue Tubes one as well if I find it suits the tune better... it also has some nice presets too).
 
Food for thought.
 
As far as this LANDR thing... from what I'm gleaning all that's really been added here is some option to export and their upload tool? Anything else has to be paid for but we get maybe some limited "sample" formats of our mixes?
 
Does seem like this should be a separate install. Never heard of these guys and am hesitant to add "cloudy" type uploader tools. The option to "remove" it isn't quite as good as a fully separate install for those who want it.
 
I'm also gleaning that if one wanted to upload to their service they could do so manually anyway? Yes? That's how I'd go about it and always have for any of these auto upload options.
 
I really don't like extra things creeping around my system "helping" me. They always seem to do dumb crap that slows down my system(s) like that Dropbox folder thing or the plethora of other upload tools. I do most of that crap on a completely separate system anyway. If it's just an export option (like the youtube/soundcloud things) I guess that's rather benign but then why is there a 100MB program that goes along with it?
 
Not trying to kvetch. Just some observations and trying to understand what's what here.
 
It was a good year though. Ya'll been working hard and I personally never expected big bombastic new features EVERY month. Just not feelin' this one and REALLY wanted that TH3 Sonar update before I lapsed. I wanted to use it to get a feel for the new design before decided whether I need the full version (and to stay reasonably up to date on how things are done so I can remain semi useful to others using the program). I was maybe going to see if I could reup next month at the discount price but that deal got pulled so I've abandoned that plan.
 
Cheers.