mettelus
The "LANDR Master" still shows as an export option even with it first removed manually, and with a rollback to Manchester followed by a manual installation of Newburyport (and deselecting its installation). If functional without installation (and I didn't test), I am also now very curious why their software has been baked into the installer for SONAR? Running from the CCC would not make a user aware of this, and it didn't occur to me until I saw the "bloatware" comments either.
 
For those who haven't noticed, SONAR began last year as a 312MB download (just Splat, mind you). Newburyport is now 515MB - nearly 80MB higher than Manchester alone - and includes "LANDR" which expands to something like 145MB. Because of the rollback feature, I assume this will continue to be baked in going forward, which also makes no sense if their software changes and a SONAR user rolls back. Everyone is now forced to download this each month even if they do not want it?

I agree

coolbass

Paul P

coolbass
It should be an option to exclude it from the sonar experience.

It is.

Well I now did uninstall it, but I was not given the option not to install it while updating.

LANDR does not fully uninstall. There are lots of registry entries referring to LANDR left even after an uninstall through control panel. Since the Sonar installer runs with admin rights, there is no saying where LANDR installed stuff and if its actually gone after an uninstall. Rolling back Sonar also does not get fully rid of LANDR.
 
The only way to get rid of LANDR is to go back to a restore point pre-dating the update, and that might still leave LANDR files.
 
My preference would most certainly be not to have it be a hidden install. Moving forward I'll be running the installer in verbose mode and I hope I see these things first.
 

Wow!
Have not seen this kind of back and forth..........ever over a new addition to Sonar. I am sure the bakers were not expecting this. Standing back, one is able to see both sides. Did cake just want to help us out with the mastering process by implementing a 'service' for it in their product or are they just thinking of the future monetary needs of Cake and how to get it. It would be bad if it was a test run between cake and landr to see if it would fly. We do have to admit that Sonar is turning into a platform for collecting all sorts of parts and working them together to help us all 'get the music out.' It would appear that cake has a lot of musicians also so they must have a desire to make the best product for all concerned. Maybe they could have asked us for opinions on Mastering software. We sure have a lot of opinions here. Lol. It will be interesting in the long run to see how Cake responds.
It appears alot of talk is about what I call 'production notes'. The little snippets that give a little of what the song will someday sound like. I think of them as working models that is part of an ongoing project. Nothing we send home with the client should only be for the client to listen to. And of course ALL the clients friends. Yeah it should be of decent quality, but surely not final product. It will be interesting to follow. Anything that gets Craig crazy is always good because it pulls out little nuggets that I can always use. So, thanks for that. Hehe. 
Definitely not a reason to leave Sonar.

I will throw a few files at this and see what happens for curiosity, but can't see a use in for myself. Like most, I have my methods for mixing towards a good master, with a bus set up for a 'general' sound. Then I export the track into a master project that is set up for the album. That way I can compare mixes, go back and make corrections, until I'm happy with all the tracks. If they are client files, they get sent out of here for comment in MP3. Once all corrections are done, then I save as a new project and start the full mastering process, hopefully never returning to the mixes.
So, I have no use for this phase that LANDR offers. But if it was installed, I just wouldn't use that function, which is one button?? The rest is 3rd party access isn't it?
 
So what's all this fuss? I've not read one thing in any of this, not in all the threads, not in the ezine, where anyone from Cake, Anderton, or otherwise, suggests we use this to master anything except demos. Just a tool for preview to make decisions against. Just like everything we already do isn't it? Some might find it useful, so might not, some may never know. Why would some care what others do with this?
 
Is it any different to any of the plugins we have and use from within Sonar that Cake didn't bake? Do you use them all? Where they 'rammed down our throats'?
 
I've never understood why some people just have to attack the 'establishment'. Live and let live......

Beepster
Maybe a better option (for now... until the toolset can be expanded) is to get Craig and a bunch of Baker's with extensive mastering experience (or even tap outside sources and/or some of our forum members like Danny, Jeff and Bit) to sit down and create some good Mastering chains/presets/templates that cover a wide range of styles using the tools we have on hand.

Beeps,
 
Lurssen
FG-X
S73

Okay... I want to make clear what I was saying because I think I've been lumped in with some of the more... uh, colorful opinions about LANDR.
 
I have essentially NO opinion on the service. Until yesterday I had never heard of it.
 
My problem with this (and it's something that's been brought up quite a few times but is being ignored or dismissed as LANDR "hate"/mastering snobbery) is that it seems to have been surreptitiously crammed in with the main installer download.
 
Strip the client out of the main download and most of these posts complaining will become entirely moot (and all but the most unreasonable folks satisfied).
 
That is it. That is all. It is a third party client. I don't know (therefore do not trust) the company. I've had crummy experiences and performance issues with similar uploader clients in the past (by them merely being on my system). I do not even want the exe file on my system (from what I'm seeing said it has to omitted during an advanced install so the package has to be unpacked at the very least).
 
Everyone here should know I am a big fan of Sonar and Cakewalk but I'd like to think I've retained some objectivity. It doesn't matter if LANDR is the greatest doohicky in the history of doohickeys. It is how it is being distributed and although I am loathe to say it's "bloatware" it really does strike me as the type of thing that gets jammed into downloads from CNET or loaded onto preconfigured store bought computers designed solely to sell something.
 
It is product placement right inside our most crucial piece of software. Get it out of there so we can decide for ourselves. Many of the other additions to the Sonar package are separate downloads so there is no reason this client needs to be any different.
 
There have been a few other seemingly frivolous actions/liberties Cake has taken recently that have also raised my eyebrows as to the direction things are going. As much as I dislike posting less than glowing approval (because then I get walloped from both sides) if the more rational users don't say anything then Cake won't hear the concerns and the program may go down the wrong path.
 
As for LANDR... it does seem quite gimmicky and definitely expensive (considering there are quality mastering tools with presets that could likely do the same thing or better AND are tweakable) BUT that doesn't mean I think it's crap or I'm not willing to give it a try. I probably will... just not directly from the DAW. It will get used the way I use all these other types of cloud services. I will go to their website and manually upload. If for some reason the ONLY way to use it is to install a client... then no, I will absolutely not try it because that's just sketchy.
 
Best of luck to them either way.
 
As far as all the "mastering" stuff I was prattling on about... that was in no way an admonishment of LANDR or any other such service/tool. I was merely pointing out that a) many of us would prefer to do this type of thing on our own inside Sonar and b) we have been told for YEARS that Sonar includes tools good enough to create quality masters. So if acquiring new tools isn't possible at this point then templates, FX Chains and Sonar specific educational materials that are created by those who DO know how to make it work in such a capacity would be a welcome (and IMO more useful) addition.
 
If LANDR is essentially just using algorithms for analysis and fx presets for the end result then surely an ever evolving library of genre specific Sonar templates and presets could be conjured up. Then the USER becomes the algorithm in the equation.
 
This is no diss to Craig, LANDR or any of the people who like this new thingie. It is just my opinion on how this has been foisted upon us and some general blatherings about other, semi related things that would be extremely useful to my little setup.
 
PS: I actually DID read the eZine blurb on this before even entering the thread. I read/download the eZines every month and keep them with my manuals.
 
tl;dr
 
Make the LANDR thingie a separate download/installer and I'll be more than fine with it.
 
A criticism of the distribution method is NOT a criticism of the product, people who use/like it nor a statement about "mastering"... small m, BIG M or otherwise. If something works for you use it.
 
Not here to argue, bash or be bashed. Just voicing my concerns about this particular aspect of this particular update.
 
Peace.

bapu
Beeps,
 
Lurssen
FG-X
S73

Thanks, Baps. Always like checking out options. I do have my heart set on Ozone (actually some of the bundles because those are much better deals). Obviously pricey stuff for a scrounger but I'm slowly getting my bootstraps pulled upward.
 
Cheers.

It seems LANDAR is adding about 18% to the program install package.  Looks and smells like bloatware (Cake is obviously getting paid to add this to the software) for a service that is really a pay to really use it offering.  
 
Should have been an optional install and I hope they change this going forward.  (and uninstalling it seems to leave behind traces of it, which is not cool).  This is an agreement that really offers very little value to users.  If we wanted the exact same option, we could go directly to LANDAR, the only difference is the export option in the program vs. exporting like we all do.  Not worth that extra install on my machine.  
 
The program could be great.  It is the fact it is forced on, pay for service, is the issue.  

Beepster
 
There have been a few other seemingly frivolous actions/liberties Cake has taken recently that have also raised my eyebrows as to the direction things are going. 
 

 
Hey, Beeps.
 
I am just interested to find out what "actions/liberties" you have come across.
 
Hope all is well in Beeps-land.
 
J

there is no "software", it's a file "conversion" and  link, kinda like soundcloud. At least that is how I understand it. I could be wrong.