• SONAR
  • Drum Limiter Recommendations?
2018/06/12 21:38:22
SonicExplorer
Hi Guys,
 
I'm struggling a bit with drum mixes and have discovered one of the largest colorations in my approach seems to come from limiters.  While I try to keep things balanced during mix it is inevitable that I often end up with at least slight transients on kick and snare that need to be tamed down a touch.  So I'll often put a limiter on the master drum buss.  And then of course there is also a final limiter on the Mastering buss when the time comes.
 
I've found Voxengo Elephant and Timeworks Mastering Comp/Limiter to be Ok. But they still color the drums in a way that I'm not fully happy with.  Are there any limiters out there you might recommend trying that seem to yield a good result when used on a drum bus?   (Keep in mind I'm using WinXP).   I'm looking for something that is either A) transparent or B) coloring in a helpful way.
 
Thanks,
 
Sonic
2018/06/12 21:48:04
Lynn
Best of luck.  What you're doing is like trying to find a steering wheel for a Model T.  Not much is left for Windows XP 32 bit, let alone Sonar 5, but you may have some luck at the KVR site.  https://www.kvraudio.com
2018/06/12 22:10:39
TheMaartian
PSP Xenon still claims 32-bit XP with Service Pack 2 support. It's long in the tooth, but remains an excellent, transparent master buss limiter that should work quite well on a drum buss.
 
The problem is, it's back at its list of $249. I got lucky and picked it up last January from Audio Deluxe for less than $26. It/When it goes back on sale, I'd jump all over it.
 
http://www.pspaudioware.com/plugins/dynamic_processors/psp_xenon/
 

2018/06/13 01:17:37
bitflipper
32- (and 64-) bit, works like a charm on drums, and it's FREE: LoudMax.
 
Caveat: you have to set the limit to about 3 dB below your actual target. Minor quibble. The important thing is it sounds great on drums.
2018/06/13 02:02:43
BenMMusTech
I know you're after limiter advice, but to me it seems your drum mix technique needs work, which would help with yoir problem. Think of mixing like making a cake or even a painting...both are made of layers. If you put too much icing on the cake, which is just one layer...the cake tastes out of balance? Well it's the same with mixing. To me trying to fix the drum mix by using a limiter - unless that's the aesthetic you're after - is like the cake analogy.

If you want try this, use the tape sim in the Prochannel to squash the transients. Don't be frightened to push the VU meter into the red, but keep the average to -6ish. I use a tasty EQ...I tend to use Wave's and depending on the flavour I'm after (the cake analogy:)), but depending on the flavour for example if I'm after a metallic sound, I'd use the TG12345 or of I want the sound to be slighty warm but not too warm I'd go for the Neve EQ from Wave's. Now whilst the Quad EQ in the Prochannel won't add any flavor - it does have matching EQ curves to the SSL off the top of my head and would suffice. Use your ear to see whether you want the EQ before or after the tape sim. I tend to use two snares and kicks these days too. You would then either feed these instruments into either a snare and kick aux, a drum aux or buss. Then you add further processing onto those tracks, for example I use Wave's J37 or the tape machine made famous by The Beatles to level the drums, followed by further EQ and sometimes the EQ before the tape sim. Finally I will use a tasty compressor. I also use console emulation across my mixes. Console emulation acts like a transient shaper. Whilst again I use Wave's - the Prochannel console emulation should be suffice for most. Hopefully you can see how the cake anology is apt.

Ben
2018/06/13 02:06:53
JonD
For less coloration, you might try parallel compression on your drums rather than slamming them with a limiter.
 
Edit:  Lol, Ben beat me to it, and with more detail (above post).
2018/06/13 03:20:43
SonicExplorer
Thanks for the input so far.  I will look into LoudMax.
 
Yeah, I'm already doing all the usual techniques, parallel processing, saturation, drum layering, etc.  That's not really the problem.  As I said, eventually I seem to end up with the need to slightly tame kick and snare transients. And rather than re-balance everything I often find it more sensible to try a limiter on the drum bus.    I do plan to look into a tape sim, as suggested, however as one additional avenue.
 
Sonic
2018/06/13 06:09:29
SonicExplorer
bitflipper, I just downloaded LoudMax it is only 360KB.   Does that sound right??.... seems more like the size of a virus.....    When I scanned it Norton took longer than I've ever seen to make up it's mind.

Sonic
2018/06/13 08:24:17
Kev999
SonicExplorer
...I just downloaded LoudMax it is only 360KB.   Does that sound right??...

 
The zip file is 449KB and contains 2 dll files, sizes 380KB and 398KB.
2018/06/13 12:12:47
Pragi
Usually the most energy of all audio signals have the kick and the bass, this
instruments create  the most difficulties  getting it "right in the mix." 
So I recommend the lowend mix trick .
https://www.youtube.com/w..?v=ECRx4WF3pcc&t=4s
to manage this instruments on one bus.
The idea is to not use the same limiter on kick and snare to save the transients aso..
 
The other instruments in a mix are usually easier to handle and need often other fx.
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