Kylotan
What is lacking from Sonar's Step Sequencer for this?

It's  not that Sonar's step sequencer is lacking. I think fl users are just used to the integrated nature of how the step sequencer works. With Sonar you can't just drag a drum sample to a channel on step sequencer and run with it. Also, although I find Sonar's step sequencer adequate, I find the step sequencers in both Geist and FL a lot more intuitive.

This thread does give me an idea. Perhaps I should make a template for Sonar for those accustomed to FL studio. 
 

sharke
As a long time Geist user I guess I'm spoiled and could never go back to beat making with Sonar's stock tools. It would be great if Cakewalk could cut a deal with fxpansion to include Geist with Sonar, if even a scaled down version.

Yes, making a deal with fxpansion's Geist oder Air-Music Transfuser etc. could be a good way to achieve better beatmaking in Sonar. The tools in Sonar are good and for many things sufficient. For special needs, more focused 3rd party plugins are the better choice as internal DAW tools.
 
Cakewalk is doing good job on developing Sonar, but most of their own effect or instrument plugins are not really good. So imo, good partnerships with other developers are a good way to improve the overall Sonar system.
 
Overloud or XLN are good current strategic partners. I would like to see some more good partnerships, like fxpansion or the great Air Music Technology. Air was strategic partner and developer of great synths and tools for Digidesign until they were discharged by Avid. Their complete product lineup would fit very well to Sonar.
 
_Markus

Yeah Air Music Technology stuff is very good. I didn't use Pro Tools for very long but I enjoyed using Vacuum and all of the various Air plugins. As stock plugins they were of a very high quality. 

I don't fully understand everything you are all speaking of because I use Sonar exclusively and have no experience with other brands. So please excuse me if I'm speaking off base or repeating other conversations.
As far as loops go, my issue is with the step sequencer.
If Sonar could simply add the ability to record beats on the fly directly into the step sequencer without requiring you to record a midi then convert it to the step sequencer, it would be awesome. The "Step Record" function within the step sequencer has NO use as it currently is.
 
"Cakewalk, please alow the "step record" to run freely as if you pressed play and allow us to tap pads on our controller to enter beats onto the sequencer."
 
I don't understand the logic of the step record function staying in place until you tap, then only moving to the next step. Who creates beats like that? Not only would making this change be a small but great added feature, but it would allow us to connect electronic drums and record directly into the step sequencer. Recording into midi is OK, but I'm more old school guy and would love the ability to use Sonar like a traditional 808 or 909. It seems like a very simple feature request that would go along way to home studio producers having fun rather than doing work.
 
While I'm at it, it would also be cool to have a bounce to matrix function that could bounce all selected tracks to an chosen matrix project (like having two projects open, were one is a temporary project for creating loops and the other is a working matrix project for jamming and saving).

raymondm4
I don't fully understand everything you are all speaking of because I use Sonar exclusively and have no experience with other brands. So please excuse me if I'm speaking off base or repeating other conversations.
As far as loops go, my issue is with the step sequencer.
If Sonar could simply add the ability to record beats on the fly directly into the step sequencer without requiring you to record a midi then convert it to the step sequencer, it would be awesome. The "Step Record" function within the step sequencer has NO use as it currently is.
 
"Cakewalk, please alow the "step record" to run freely as if you pressed play and allow us to tap pads on our controller to enter beats onto the sequencer."
 
I don't understand the logic of the step record function staying in place until you tap, then only moving to the next step. Who creates beats like that? Not only would making this change be a small but great added feature, but it would allow us to connect electronic drums and record directly into the step sequencer. Recording into midi is OK, but I'm more old school guy and would love the ability to use Sonar like a traditional 808 or 909. It seems like a very simple feature request that would go along way to home studio producers having fun rather than doing work.
 
While I'm at it, it would also be cool to have a bounce to matrix function that could bounce all selected tracks to an chosen matrix project (like having two projects open, were one is a temporary project for creating loops and the other is a working matrix project for jamming and saving).

I'm just guessing but  i think the step record feature was supposed to work the way a drum machine in step mode works. It was a rarely used mode even on drum machines but i do recall it having some use like being able to step-through" the beat to find errors. I still have an HR-16 that has a "step record mode".This was also present in other post 808/909 machines like the Roland R8 and 505. The idea was to be able to cycle through a loop one step at a time to make fixes.    A simple application on a drum machine was for those who preferred to input beats live, one could go into step record mode and add a kick on the downbeat before doing the rest live.  In other words, i don't think it's mislabeled or poorly implemented, but a feature that had uses on a small LCD grid but  becomes obsolete on a computer. Sonar's "mistake" if you want to call it that was trying to make the step sequencer to true to old drum machine step sequencers.  Every old school drum machine i had either had a step mode or a live record mode with no in between mode. So the answer to the "who creates beats like this?" is guys who had drum machines in the late 80's and early 90's. Nobody i know of does it now

I think part of the problem with comparing some of the features in Sonar to other applications is the comparisons are often made between features that are not really the same thing.  You could no more record audio directly from Sonar's step sequencer than you could record audio from the piano roll.  The piano roll merely tells the VST what to play, how long to play it, etc. the step sequencer does the same thing but far more limited. The step sequencer is pure step sequencer and nothing else.  If anything like FL or a step sequencer drum machine /sampler were to come a bout from Cakewalk, i doubt it would be based on the current step sequencer since it would be an attempt to re-purpose a very simple midi based sequencer into something it is not even close to being.
 

raymondm4
I don't fully understand everything you are all speaking of because I use Sonar exclusively and have no experience with other brands. So please excuse me if I'm speaking off base or repeating other conversations.
As far as loops go, my issue is with the step sequencer.
If Sonar could simply add the ability to record beats on the fly directly into the step sequencer without requiring you to record a midi then convert it to the step sequencer, it would be awesome. The "Step Record" function within the step sequencer has NO use as it currently is.
 
"Cakewalk, please alow the "step record" to run freely as if you pressed play and allow us to tap pads on our controller to enter beats onto the sequencer."
 
I don't understand the logic of the step record function staying in place until you tap, then only moving to the next step. Who creates beats like that? Not only would making this change be a small but great added feature, but it would allow us to connect electronic drums and record directly into the step sequencer. Recording into midi is OK, but I'm more old school guy and would love the ability to use Sonar like a traditional 808 or 909. It seems like a very simple feature request that would go along way to home studio producers having fun rather than doing work.
 
While I'm at it, it would also be cool to have a bounce to matrix function that could bounce all selected tracks to an chosen matrix project (like having two projects open, were one is a temporary project for creating loops and the other is a working matrix project for jamming and saving).

I agree there should be a tailor made way to do exactly as you describe. Currently what I would do to record a 2 bar step sequencer loop (if I had to) is this:
 

• Turn on input quantize to, say, 16th notes
• Set up a 2 bar loop
• Make sure that the recording mode is set to "sound on sound"
• Start recording
• Put down the kick part, then put down the snare and hats on successive iterations of the loop
• Lasso all of the clips that are created 
• Bounce to clip
• Open in step sequencer

What a pain! It's incredible that the record function in the step sequencer doesn't just loop the steps and let you record directly into them. I've never used step recording either because for the life of me I can't find a use for it in my workflow. 
 
Of course it goes without saying that Geist excels at this.

dubdisciple
I think part of the problem with comparing some of the features in Sonar to other applications is the comparisons are often made between features that are not really the same thing.  You could no more record audio directly from Sonar's step sequencer than you could record audio from the piano roll.  The piano roll merely tells the VST what to play, how long to play it, etc. the step sequencer does the same thing but far more limited. The step sequencer is pure step sequencer and nothing else.  If anything like FL or a step sequencer drum machine /sampler were to come a bout from Cakewalk, i doubt it would be based on the current step sequencer since it would be an attempt to re-purpose a very simple midi based sequencer into something it is not even close to being.
 

 
I get what you're saying, but I don't really see why they couldn't implement the ability to record into the step sequencer just like you can record to MIDI. If you click "play" in the step sequencer, it throws a loop around the clip in question and loops it. If it can do that, then why not let you record events into it as it's looping? 

sharke
 
 
 
I get what you're saying, but I don't really see why they couldn't implement the ability to record into the step sequencer just like you can record to MIDI. If you click "play" in the step sequencer, it throws a loop around the clip in question and loops it. If it can do that, then why not let you record events into it as it's looping? 

I wasn't so much denying it sucks as is.  I was more explaining that it is working how it was designed. An old school step sequencer would not let you record in that manner either.b  I think the designers failed to factor in that just because people like buying vintage plugins in feature, does not mean they want them to be 100% accurate.  Even people who owned drum machines that worked in that way have no desire to create like that on eve nthe most nostalgic days.  Even when I drag out my HR16, I never touch the step record mode.