First, I wanna say I love Sonar, find it elegant, easy to use, extremely powerful, and a bundle of fun getting results I never imagined back "in the day"... I know it pretty well so it lets me create seamlessly and I marvel at it's abilities.  However, it's not perfect and this thread, which touches on Sonar' crappy arranging sysytem is a HUGE issue for me
 
the other night I was trying to delete a section that went on too long in a song idea...and rework the transitions between parts... it was a royal PAIN IN THE REAR AND TOOK MUCH OF MY EVENING AND NEVER REALLY WORKED RIGHT...I finally gave up as the night was lost and went to bed frustrated...sure, it had multiple vocals, several Kontakts and Omnisphere's, BFD and a few other things... lots of midi and printed to audio...and level changes drawn in all over the place... but OY!!!
 
This should be simple... it's something I'd really like to do more but don't because it is SOOOOO f'n challenging.  I don't want to have to figure out if clips overlap or extend beyond the delete zone... or whatever I'm suppose to somehow remember and know... it should just WORK!!!
 
I'm a songwriter... I create ideas, hone and refine them... I should be able to swipe a zone and pull down to include all the tracks (any kind of track should NOT matter), and cut it out, move it, paste it once, twice, whatever... and it should take one MINUTE, NOT an hour and still be messed up.
 
Awhile back I was really excited about all the talk regarding the arrange system Presonus came up with and actually picked up S1v3pro in a good deal offered by a fello Caker, figuring I'd give it a serious looksee... I was angry at the amount of time it took to move chunks of ideas around and how it just didn't work... But I got busy at work, really love Sonar, saw all the support for this in the ideas forum... (it is the number one request I believe) and couldn't afford the time to learn S1v3 as to my dumb brain it just wasn't intuitive enough...
 
This has been the subject of endless discussion.  I DON'T want to have to locate all the workarounds and commit them to memory for a half baked process... I just wanna select, click, cut, paste and have it work.... OOOOYYYYY!!!
 
Why is this so hard?  
 
Along the lines Paul mentioned, I'd give up the next 6 months of "stuff" for an EASY, FLAWLESS arrange system... IT IS A CRUCIAL ELEMENT OF SONG WRITING/EDITING/PRODUCTION.
 
A daw should make this easy.  It AIN'T... I don't whine often but this really bugs me.  It'll be the push ultimately getting me to devote the time to see how it should be done...Jeff keeps reminding me that it's already sitting there on my hard drive, waiting to blow me away...I've been waiting patiently, figuring the bakers would respond to the other DAWs getting their acts together in this regard... Noel seemed to be considering some changes in this area but then went on to say they've been kicking this around for years...since this oblique comment last year in the suggestions forum, I've heard NOTHING and NOTHING is being mentioned in "Upcoming" planned thingys...If it continues to be ignored in my beloved daw of choice... I WILL spend the time elsewhere...and I DON'T want to...
 
ARRRRRG!!!!

Fully agree there's a bug involved in cutting and pasting, and one that can sometimes cause untold hours of work because it wasn't noticed at the right time.  
 
fwiw -- I see failure to close the hole as a bug that raises its head only after a good deal of normal editing, not immediately. 
 
Also, I believe that if your selection does not include a whole measure, then checking the "Shift by Whole Measures" does not work.   Which means the check box is kind of a typical dumb idea anyway.   How can you delete an amount of time that is NOT a whole measure and then shift by a whole measure? 

I believe if you add a clip with some sort of dummy midi data in the space where you want the hole to be closed, (just to have some midi data in the region to be deleted) and then do the Delete Special, with the delete hole option specified, that might work.
 
Easy enough to test - give it a try.  I am on my way to a doctor's appointment, or I would test if for you - sorry I have to run for now....
 
Bob Bone
 

I found this doc on the Cakewalk site:
 
https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR%20X2&language=3&help=EditingMIDI.33.html
 
 
Bob Bone

As stated, maybe not too clearly. Using Rons workaround I was able to delte the hole and some tracks had midi data and some didn't. 
Thanks

Go to preferences-editing and uncheck "Non-destructive MIDI editing".  This fixes the problem..
 
JG
www.jerrygerber.com
Symphony #9, 4th movement:  www.jerrygerber.com/symph9mvt4.htm
 
 
 
 

jsg
Go to preferences-editing and uncheck "Non-destructive MIDI editing".  This fixes the problem..
 
JG
www.jerrygerber.com
Symphony #9, 4th movement:  www.jerrygerber.com/symph9mvt4.ht

Thanks again...that's what I did when Rn sugested it-

jsg
Go to preferences-editing and uncheck "Non-destructive MIDI editing".  This fixes the problem..

Except that (I presume) you also destroy the original midi in the process.
Something that doesn't happen with audio.
 
Maybe it's time midi clips were stored separately just like audio.  (why aren't they already ?)

A related issue arose after a good deal of cut, copy, and paste today:    there were ghostly midi notes left audible after a cut --- not visible anywhere in event, track, or prv views, but clearly sounding.  
 
Edit -- that was result of paste having put midi notes into hidden tracks, so the ghostly sound is explained, but not how the notes got to an unused track.