cparmerlee
IMHO that's a very short-sighted view.  Most audio product have MP3 support tightly integrated.  This is a really stupid move by Cakewalk.  It makes the product seem cheap and amateurish, period. 
 
In addition to the cost and hassle of setting it up. the lack of integration makes saving as MP3 extremely slow.  I paid the $20, but it is so blasted slow, I just generate WAV files and convert using a batch utility.  Really half-assed aspect of the product.
 
Thinks like this make Sonar appear unprofessional compared to other commercial products.

Huh? MP3 is fully integrated there is nothing non native or slower about it. We use the latest LAME encoder and it encodes each buffer that is written. It doesn't get any more integrated than that. 

cparmerlee

Anderton
There are many ways to convert to MP3 (for example, iTunes), and because Cakewalk has to pay a license fee for the codec, it makes no sense to force all the people who don't need MP3 export to pay for it.

IMHO that's a very short-sighted view.  Most audio product have MP3 support tightly integrated.  This is a really stupid move by Cakewalk.  It makes the product seem cheap and amateurish, period. 

I always thought MP3s themselves were cheap and amateurish  I think it's much more "professional" that SONAR includes DSD and FLAC import/export.
 
There are two main issues. First, every product has a bill of materials. What's paid to third party developers (XLN, Overloud, Celemony, Fraunhofer, etc.) is a fixed cost. Including MP3 conversion means that either something else needs to be taken out or the price needs to be raised. Given that there are so many ways to convert to MP3 and only one way to get Melodyne, Addictive Drums, REmatrix Solo, etc., I think most users would prefer to pay for elements that aren't redundant.
 
Second, I believe MP3 is a fading format. Internet bandwidth keeps getting faster and memory keeps getting cheaper. I can't remember the last time I encountered a 128 kbps MP3 file and that used to be the lingua franca. Windows 10 emphasizes FLAC and Apple is more interested in their lossless compression algorithm. With SONAR supporting FLAC, Ogg, DSD, etc. I think there are plenty of professional conversion options.

scook
Yes, a one-time $10 fee (at least that is what I see in the store at the moment) for a perpetual license to unlock all future versions of SONAR is not worth a lot of discussion time. Cakewalk also provide a mechanism to chain any command line conversion utility to SONAR via the External Encoder Configuration Utility.

I'm still going on the MP3 license included with the upgrade to PA9 

Anderton

cparmerlee

Anderton
There are many ways to convert to MP3 (for example, iTunes), and because Cakewalk has to pay a license fee for the codec, it makes no sense to force all the people who don't need MP3 export to pay for it.

IMHO that's a very short-sighted view.  Most audio product have MP3 support tightly integrated.  This is a really stupid move by Cakewalk.  It makes the product seem cheap and amateurish, period. 

I always thought MP3s themselves were cheap and amateurish  I think it's much more "professional" that SONAR includes DSD and FLAC import/export.
 
There are two main issues. First, every product has a bill of materials. What's paid to third party developers (XLN, Overloud, Celemony, Fraunhofer, etc.) is a fixed cost. Including MP3 conversion means that either something else needs to be taken out or the price needs to be raised. Given that there are so many ways to convert to MP3 and only one way to get Melodyne, Addictive Drums, REmatrix Solo, etc., I think most users would prefer to pay for elements that aren't redundant.
 
Second, I believe MP3 is a fading format. Internet bandwidth keeps getting faster and memory keeps getting cheaper. I can't remember the last time I encountered a 128 kbps MP3 file and that used to be the lingua franca. Windows 10 emphasizes FLAC and Apple is more interested in their lossless compression algorithm. With SONAR supporting FLAC, Ogg, DSD, etc. I think there are plenty of professional conversion options.

I wouldn't question Cakewalks support for professional formats. However, you know as well as I that most people are going to want to output a compressed format to carry around with them on their portable player, most likely a phone, which is most likely their primary listening source for music. What format do you think they are going to use? My guess is MP3. This is why you have people again and again coming to the forum upset about needing to unlock the MP3 encoder or trying to configure Sonar to use a free encoder which is an obscure process and isn't nearly as convenient as the one they can unlock by purchasing the license or what ever from Cakewalk when most software provide this functionality by default. You can tell people again and again about licensing cost etc. But when most software provides this functionality by default it's difficult for people to understand. They just expect that professional audio software they payed money for is going to be able to do this when a bunch of free programs can already do this.

+1, putting 3000 songs in a phone isn't going to be put aside by lossless. The other point is that for most listening environments that "lossy" can be fairly forgiving if not entirely unnoticeable.

Those touting "new trend/cutting edge" gives me hopes for my 8-tracks, beta cassettes and laser disks though :D

WDI

Anderton

cparmerlee

Anderton
There are many ways to convert to MP3 (for example, iTunes), and because Cakewalk has to pay a license fee for the codec, it makes no sense to force all the people who don't need MP3 export to pay for it.

IMHO that's a very short-sighted view.  Most audio product have MP3 support tightly integrated.  This is a really stupid move by Cakewalk.  It makes the product seem cheap and amateurish, period. 

I always thought MP3s themselves were cheap and amateurish  I think it's much more "professional" that SONAR includes DSD and FLAC import/export.
 
There are two main issues. First, every product has a bill of materials. What's paid to third party developers (XLN, Overloud, Celemony, Fraunhofer, etc.) is a fixed cost. Including MP3 conversion means that either something else needs to be taken out or the price needs to be raised. Given that there are so many ways to convert to MP3 and only one way to get Melodyne, Addictive Drums, REmatrix Solo, etc., I think most users would prefer to pay for elements that aren't redundant.
 
Second, I believe MP3 is a fading format. Internet bandwidth keeps getting faster and memory keeps getting cheaper. I can't remember the last time I encountered a 128 kbps MP3 file and that used to be the lingua franca. Windows 10 emphasizes FLAC and Apple is more interested in their lossless compression algorithm. With SONAR supporting FLAC, Ogg, DSD, etc. I think there are plenty of professional conversion options.

I wouldn't question Cakewalks support for professional formats. However, you know as well as I that most people are going to want to output a compressed format to carry around with them on their portable player, most likely a phone, which is most likely their primary listening source for music. What format do you think they are going to use? My guess is MP3. This is why you have people again and again coming to the forum upset about needing to unlock the MP3 encoder or trying to configure Sonar to use a free encoder which is an obscure process and isn't nearly as convenient as the one they can unlock by purchasing the license or what ever from Cakewalk when most software provide this functionality by default. You can tell people again and again about licensing cost etc. But when most software provides this functionality by default it's difficult for people to understand. They just expect that professional audio software they payed money for is going to be able to do this when a bunch of free programs can already do this.

But surely, you DON'T need the Cake mp3 encoder when you can integrate Lame for free. C'mon, whay make such a fuss about a one time manoeuver with Lame which is downloadable and fits perfectly into Sonar's Utilities.
 
Personally I use Goldwave (a one time licence) for all conversion for convenience. Each to his/her own, but lets face it, the Cake mp3 encoder is a bonus, not a necessity.
 
Cheers,
Jerry

joakes

WDI

Anderton

cparmerlee

Anderton
There are many ways to convert to MP3 (for example, iTunes), and because Cakewalk has to pay a license fee for the codec, it makes no sense to force all the people who don't need MP3 export to pay for it.

IMHO that's a very short-sighted view.  Most audio product have MP3 support tightly integrated.  This is a really stupid move by Cakewalk.  It makes the product seem cheap and amateurish, period. 

I always thought MP3s themselves were cheap and amateurish  I think it's much more "professional" that SONAR includes DSD and FLAC import/export.
 
There are two main issues. First, every product has a bill of materials. What's paid to third party developers (XLN, Overloud, Celemony, Fraunhofer, etc.) is a fixed cost. Including MP3 conversion means that either something else needs to be taken out or the price needs to be raised. Given that there are so many ways to convert to MP3 and only one way to get Melodyne, Addictive Drums, REmatrix Solo, etc., I think most users would prefer to pay for elements that aren't redundant.
 
Second, I believe MP3 is a fading format. Internet bandwidth keeps getting faster and memory keeps getting cheaper. I can't remember the last time I encountered a 128 kbps MP3 file and that used to be the lingua franca. Windows 10 emphasizes FLAC and Apple is more interested in their lossless compression algorithm. With SONAR supporting FLAC, Ogg, DSD, etc. I think there are plenty of professional conversion options.

I wouldn't question Cakewalks support for professional formats. However, you know as well as I that most people are going to want to output a compressed format to carry around with them on their portable player, most likely a phone, which is most likely their primary listening source for music. What format do you think they are going to use? My guess is MP3. This is why you have people again and again coming to the forum upset about needing to unlock the MP3 encoder or trying to configure Sonar to use a free encoder which is an obscure process and isn't nearly as convenient as the one they can unlock by purchasing the license or what ever from Cakewalk when most software provide this functionality by default. You can tell people again and again about licensing cost etc. But when most software provides this functionality by default it's difficult for people to understand. They just expect that professional audio software they payed money for is going to be able to do this when a bunch of free programs can already do this.

But surely, you DON'T need the Cake mp3 encoder when you can integrate Lame for free. C'mon, whay make such a fuss about a one time manoeuver with Lame which is downloadable and fits perfectly into Sonar's Utilities.
 
Personally I use Goldwave (a one time licence) for all conversion for convenience. Each to his/her own, but lets face it, the Cake mp3 encoder is a bonus, not a necessity.
 
Cheers,
Jerry

I bought the unlock from Cakewalk long ago and was happy with that. I'm not making a fuss. Rather playings devils advocate to Craig's post. I understand why people make a fuss and are confused as to why they have to pay additional money to unlock a feature which most people are going to expect comes with their initial purchase. This has been going on for as long I've been coming to the forums here at Cakewalk.
 
Just for the sake of argument...
I always see posts defending Cakewalk saying it's a good thing Cakewalk is saving their customers money by making it an option to purchase the license instead of automatically passing it on to the customer. However, this could be viewed as Cakewalk being cheap to make their product cheaper at the same time saving themselves money.
 
As far as "Needing Cakewalks encoder" it's a huge convenience to just have it built in and working out of the box. No muss no fuss. I know I export MP3s more than waves while working on a project. I always want a mix as I go along to see how things are progressing. Having to export twice to accomplish this is a pain. And having to configure Cakewalk to use a free one is a pain. Most people are not going to know how to do this or find the documentation on how to do it.

Anderton
 
I always thought MP3s themselves were cheap and amateurish 

EXACTLY.
Also if you can't be bothered to spent less than 15 mins adding it for free, or just spend $10, then that comment probably applies to you (that's only if it matters to you). If you want to be professional about it all you are looking for is a full solution, which there is.

This stupid discussion is periodically raised and regurgitated... people are so ridiculous these days presuming their way is the right way... Cake has chosen to be ethical, and the $10 is used to pay the fees.  Other options exist.  I use both Cake's converter for quick mixes I want to review while working on gardens and GoldenWave to convert from wave... you have endless options.
 
Grow up. 
 

WDI
 
I understand why people make a fuss and are confused as to why they have to pay additional money to unlock a feature which most people are going to expect comes with their initial purchase.

 
But they don't have to pay additional money to generate MP3s from inside of Cakewalk. And, SONAR's approach is far more flexible than most other programs. For example if you'd rather export as AAC, you can configure that kind of codec instead. 
 

I always see posts defending Cakewalk saying it's a good thing Cakewalk is saving their customers money by making it an option to purchase the license instead of automatically passing it on to the customer. However, this could be viewed as Cakewalk being cheap to make their product cheaper at the same time saving themselves money.

 
No, that's wrong because they wouldn't be saving themselves money. If they included it, they would either take something out or raise the price. See above explanation about bill of materials.
 
Bottom line, here are Cakewalk's choices:
 
1) Include an MP3 encoder whether people want it or not, and raise the price.
2) Include an MP3 encoder whether people want it or not, and remove something else to maintain the price.
3) Let people configure an MP3 encoder for free. They can take the $20 they save, and see a movie 
4) Give people the option to buy an MP3 encoder so they don't have to follow the 9 steps needed to configure a free encoder.
 
SONAR offers both (3) and (4).
 

...having to configure Cakewalk to use a free [encoder] is a pain.

 
It takes 9 steps to configure, as described in the Help file. 
 

Most people are not going to know how to do this or find the documentation on how to do it.

I'm not sure I agree. I think most people know that a) SONAR has a Help file, and/or b) search engines like Google exist. Either one will turn up the encoder configuration instructions.
 
But the bigger picture is that SONAR has a very flexible way for professional users to install codecs for encoding files in various formats, which is pretty cool.