ORIGINAL: Twigman

I get this problem often.
AND I NEVER UNPLUG ANYTHING!

My Motu MTPAV USB and my BehringerBCR2000 USB get dropped by Sonar regularly and ports assigned in projects get redistributed (presumably to the next port on the list).
Correcting everything every time is a total PITA.

Why would Sonar drop these ports? They are powered ON before Sonar starts, they are plugged into the USB sockets they've always been plugged into.
My HDSP9632 PCI never gets dropped.

Motu MTP ? Say it isn't so. If not, that's bad new for me. I just ordered A Motu MTP for the new machine I am having built because it was very highly recommended as a means to decrease jitter/ increase sync verses my Maudio 8*8.

I have not had this problem in Sonar but doesn't 8 have this fixed?

Below is from the Help file New features.


MIDI out port assignments are retained when adding/removing MIDI devices

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In SONAR 8, MIDI tracks and control surfaces retain their current MIDI output port assignments if you add or remove MIDI devices.

Changing output ports in the MIDI Devices dialog
Changing MIDI output ports in the MIDI Devices dialog has the following effect:

Enabling a new output port. All MIDI tracks and control surfaces retain their current output port assignments.
Disabling an unassigned output port. All MIDI tracks and control surfaces retain their current output port assignments.
Disabling an assigned output port. The result is different for MIDI tracks and control surfaces:
MIDI tracks. The Missing MIDI Ports dialog appears and lets you remap the missing output ports to available output ports.
Note: If you do not remap a missing device, the track's Output control will display MISSING: <name of missing device>. If the missing device becomes available in the future, the track will automatically be assigned to the correct device.
Control surfaces. The control surface output port is assigned to None.
Figure 9. The Missing MIDI Ports dialog lets you remap missing output devices


Figure 10. A track's Output control shows the name of the missing device

Opening projects after MIDI configuration has changed
If any assigned MIDI output devices are missing when you load a project, which is likely to happen if you transfer projects between different computers, SONAR will do the following:

MIDI tracks. The Missing MIDI Ports dialog appears and lets you remap the missing devices to available devices.
Note: If you do not remap a missing devices, the track's Output control will display MISSING: <name of missing device>. If the missing device becomes available in the future, the track will automatically be assigned to the correct device.
Control surfaces. Control surface output ports are assigned to None.

ORIGINAL: FastBikerBoy

Unless it's the driver for the E-MU 2x2 which totally screws up Sonar's ability to 'remember' the port and won't enable it when you start Sonar, regardless of whether it was enabled on last shut down or not. The fix for the problem is to remove the E-MU driver and install the Windows generic instead.

I do have one of these (dongle for Emulator X2) in my system, and can't seem to get it to switch over to the Generic USB driver. In driver management, If I turn off "show compatible devices" I get a group of about 5 manufacturers, but don't see the generic one amongst the choices. Is there a better procedure to strip the driver and force the generic one to load?

I guess I should mention that I also have the following midi devices:

Roland RD-700GX (USB) Enabled in Sonar as my main controller
NI Kore 1 HW controller (midi and audio not enabled in Sonar)
Tascam Fireone Firewire (Fireone Control Enabled, audio and Midi not enabled in Sonar)
Korg NanoPad (Enabled in Sonar)
Evolution X-Session (not enabled in Sonar)
Emu 2x2 (not enabled in Sonar)

Plus syncrosoft dongle and pace iLok dongle, Rode Podcaster, and a couple of external drives.

Don't get me started on USB ports and positions and hubs. Most device manufacturers advise against connecting to hubs, but you can only fit so many onboard and external USB ports in a machine, so going hubless is not really an option.

ORIGINAL: John

I have not had this problem in Sonar but doesn't 8 have this fixed?

Below is from the Help file New features.


MIDI out port assignments are retained when adding/removing MIDI devices

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This fix only addresses OUT ports...the randomly dropped/reassigned/re-routed IN ports are my main nightmare.

It may work perfectly for folks with multiple out port, but I can't confirm since I only have one out port active (I mostly use internal VSTi soft synths).

Yep, it needs to both output AND INPUT assignments. How come this is, apparently, so hard to implement. I also agree that, if possible, it should be a user "lockable" and "configurable" deal. I mean come on, many of us have more USB and midi devices than Carter has Little Liver Pills. Sheesh.

ORIGINAL: yorolpal

Yep, it needs to both output AND INPUT assignments. How come this is, apparently, so hard to implement. I also agree that, if possible, it should be a user "lockable" and "configurable" deal. I mean come on, many of us have more USB and midi devices than Carter has Little Liver Pills. Sheesh.

You mean like this many ?

In the past (sonar 3,4 and 5) when a port was not available and Sonar midi ports were reordered including control surface port corruption and all insdef files becoming delinked, I had been able to recover by opening a backup of a file with the correct port setup and it would overwrite the new assignments Sonar invented. That doesn't work in 6. For heavens sake why would they make it worse ? Sonar 6 now overwrites the ports assignments in the backup when it is opened.


For those that do not understand the complexities, here's my case and the order I have to keep them in.

Inputs

in Yamaha Tyros -1
in Motif XS-1
in Motif XS-2
in Motif XS-3
in Motif XS-4
in 1 usb midisport 8*8
in 2 usb midisport 8*8
in 3 usb midisport 8*8
in 4 usb midisport 8*8
in 5 usb midisport 8*8
in 6 usb midisport 8*8
in 7 usb midisport 8*8
in 8 usb midisport 8*8
in USB midi 1*1
tranzport
IF/FW/DM midi in
USB audio device
USB audio device (2)
USB audio device (3)

Outputs

out Yamaha Tyros 1
out Yamaha Tyros 2
out USB 1*1
out 1 usb midisport 8*8
out 2 usb midisport 8*8
out 3 usb midisport 8*8
out 4 usb midisport 8*8
out 5 usb midisport 8*8
out 6 usb midisport 8*8
out 7 usb midisport 8*8
out 8 usb midisport 8*8
tranzport
IF/FW/DM midi out
USB audio device
USB audio device (2)
Yamaha motif XS-1
Yamaha motif XS-2
Yamaha motif XS-3
Yamaha motif XS-4
Out - smpte USB midisport 8*8
microsoft midi mapper

And that's before inserting even 1 softsynth.

These ports will be reordered using no particular sequence I can decipher. Many of these ports, which have 16 channels each are linked to insdef files, drum files, etc of various instruments which themselves become corrupted in that they become delinked and must be reattached. There are 3 control surfaces connected which as I mentioned previously, have their port assignments corrupted. Even the methodology used in reordering by MOVING selected ports to TOP is ridiculous

So the result of Sonar's reordering is ALL midi tracks lose the voice/patch/ports assignments. If you have 30, 40 or more midi midi tracks going, you're in a hopeless situation UNTIL you can get the ports back in the correct order. And unless you have taken copious notes on each and every single track, you're (I'm) lost.

A couple of years back I wondered and asked why it was not possible to print out (using a printer of course) all track assignments, both audio and midi for safety's sake in cases like this. No response to that request. I'm bewildered by the fact that the programmers have overlooked spooling such a native thing on a computer.

My take on this is its not a good idea to use the USB MIDI ports on various gear. Its best to use a single multi port MIDI interface if at all possible. Now I have had a very similar setup to the one above except I never used the USB from any gear. I still do things that way and have had very few problems. The only times I have run into problems is when I update Sonar to a new version and a new OS. Day to day operations never drop MIDI ins and outs. I have have it so that only two MIDI interfaces are used with Sonar or any other audio app. I use the ports on my sound card and the ports on my MIDI interface. I could use the USB but early on I ran into these problems you guys talk about. Since I don't do things that way I haven't had a problem. One reason I think its problem is many of these USB MIDI ports are second rate and really thrown in to make the gear look better to the buyer. Also there is no true specs on the USB end of it as far as what they need to provide where when they have a MIDI interface specs have to be met. Not to a computer but to other MIDI gear. That is what its for and that is where it shines. To get the same level of performance from these devices you need a good dedicated stand alone MIDI USB interface. Thats the way I see.

I had a dedicated 4-port Midiman Midisport interface for years and never had this problem--they were simply labeled A, B, C, D and I had complete control over what was attached to them. The tradeoff was that the thing would make Sonar hang more often than I could stand. Whenever Sonar crashed and I couldn't even kill the Sonar process, more often than not I would unplug the Midisport and the gridlock would break free. That is actually what drove me to get specialized USB midi control interfaces like I mentioned above. Unfortunately, lots of these controllers add either audio (or Audio hardware adds midi ports) that clutter up your midi port maps and/or your audio driver list. They also expect to be bus-powered, even if you are using the midi interface instead of USB--so you still get the USB port complexity, with none of the auto-configuration benefits of a detected Midi device with drivers.

It gets complicated when you only want to use certain controllers in certain apps -- you don't want to be unplugging/hot plugging devices and rebooting all the time to rejigger your ports.

I had a dedicated 4-port Midiman Midisport interface for years and never had this problem--they were simply labeled A, B, C, D and I had complete control over what was attached to them. The tradeoff was that the thing would make Sonar hang more often than I could stand. Whenever Sonar crashed and I couldn't even kill the Sonar process, more often than not I would unplug the Midisport and the gridlock would break free. That is actually what drove me to get specialized USB midi control interfaces like I mentioned above. Unfortunately, lots of these controllers add either audio (or Audio hardware adds midi ports) that clutter up your midi port maps and/or your audio driver list. They also expect to be bus-powered, even if you are using the midi interface instead of USB--so you still get the USB port complexity, with none of the auto-configuration benefits of a detected Midi device with drivers.

It gets complicated when you only want to use certain controllers in certain apps -- you don't want to be unplugging/hot plugging devices and rebooting all the time to rejigger your ports.

Absolutely true. I will say that M-Audio MIDI interfaces are not the ideal solution. I have found much the same on an old MIDIsport box.

ORIGINAL: chaunceyc

ORIGINAL: FastBikerBoy

Unless it's the driver for the E-MU 2x2 which totally screws up Sonar's ability to 'remember' the port and won't enable it when you start Sonar, regardless of whether it was enabled on last shut down or not. The fix for the problem is to remove the E-MU driver and install the Windows generic instead.

I do have one of these (dongle for Emulator X2) in my system, and can't seem to get it to switch over to the Generic USB driver. In driver management, If I turn off "show compatible devices" I get a group of about 5 manufacturers, but don't see the generic one amongst the choices. Is there a better procedure to strip the driver and force the generic one to load?

I guess I should mention that I also have the following midi devices:

Roland RD-700GX (USB) Enabled in Sonar as my main controller
NI Kore 1 HW controller (midi and audio not enabled in Sonar)
Tascam Fireone Firewire (Fireone Control Enabled, audio and Midi not enabled in Sonar)
Korg NanoPad (Enabled in Sonar)
Evolution X-Session (not enabled in Sonar)
Emu 2x2 (not enabled in Sonar)

Plus syncrosoft dongle and pace iLok dongle, Rode Podcaster, and a couple of external drives.

Don't get me started on USB ports and positions and hubs. Most device manufacturers advise against connecting to hubs, but you can only fit so many onboard and external USB ports in a machine, so going hubless is not really an option.

I posted a sort of fix here but as stated in that I don't know whether it will continues to act as a dongle or not. It will definitely let Sonar remember that the port is enabled as opposed to having to manually enable it every time you start Sonar. I read somewhere on here that E-MU is now aware of the problem and will be posting an updated driver in January that will fix the issue. For now though this will definitely enable the MIDI ports, as to the dongle feature........... suck it and see.