• SONAR
  • Studio Acoustics Question (p.2)
2018/06/02 23:45:55
Johnbee58
msmcleod
I had a very similar experience with my speakers. Originally they were around 2" from the back wall the wall and got a great bass response. However to free up some desk space, I recently put them on mounted wall stands (which brought them as far form the wall as your speakers) and the bass practically disappeared. 
 
I'm using IK Multimedia ARC 2, so after taking new measurements it sorted it all out by boosting the bass a fair amount.
 
I know that some HiFi speakers are actually designed to make use of the wall behind them for bass, but I didn't think this was the same case for studio monitors... maybe it is for some, I don't know. My speakers certainly needed a bass boost though after moving them away from the wall.
 
I would recommend ARC 2 though (or some similar speaker measurement software along with a hardware stereo graphic eq). This will allow you to compensate for various frequency responses.
 
The angle of your speakers did catch my eye on your photo though. It looks like they're angled so the crossover point is just between your querty keyboard and monitor, whereas it should be where your ears are. I'd expect them to be angled to hit your ears around the middle of your chair - maybe it's just an illusion of the photo tho.
 
M.


Yeah.  I try to do that "axis" thing with the triangle.  When I'm sitting on that chair my head is perhaps a bit above the woofers.  The speaker stands have discreet  notches so I can't put them just anywhere height wise. If I moved them up to the next notch they would definitely be too high.  Also, each of those monitor speakers has a high and a low pass filter (3 positions).  I tried all the positions and none changes the situation much.
 

2018/06/02 23:49:52
Johnbee58
I considered moving the whole set up along the long wall.  That would give me less room behind my back but I've always wondered if that would make it sound better.  It would be too messy to try to move the panels. Also, you can't see it on this picture but there are several panels on the ceiling above the DAW desk.

2018/06/03 03:57:14
Cactus Music
Overall that's a very narrow space so not ideal at all. It's  even narrower than a mobile recording truck space. Your speakers are a bit to close together for a traditional triangle. Just look at pictures of pro studios. And in your case look at mobile recording truck designs.  They will give you the best starting point.  

 
2018/06/03 06:27:16
Bristol_Jonesey
  • You need to move your monitors to the side as much as possible - thy are far too close together, in my opinion
  • You are correct in firing speakers down the long length of the room, I wouldn't encourage re-orientating 
  • I don't think Auralex have given you bogus information, you have the trapping exactly where you need it, at the reflection points and behind the monitors
  • So for now, set all of your speakers adjustments to flat, move them, then try using ARC to fine tune the response.
In a room that small, I'm surprised there's a lack of bass - taming it is usually more of an issue.
2018/06/03 09:36:51
Johnbee58
Fellas
 
I know it's small.  Unusually small even.   I have a lemon and I have to make lemonade with it. Is it possible or not?
The only option I have is this room.  Is it possible to get more out of this room or would that be a waste of effort?
What is ARC?
 
JB
2018/06/03 09:41:46
Johnbee58
Oh, and regarding the speaker placement.  It might not be visible from looking at the pic but I simply cannot move them.  They are already against the wall.  They're as far OUT as they can be moved because the bass traps are angled inward.  That's why I considered moving the setup against the long wall.  But you don't think that's a good idea?
 

2018/06/03 10:01:22
msmcleod
Johnbee58
Fellas
 
I know it's small.  Unusually small even.   I have a lemon and I have to make lemonade with it. Is it possible or not?
The only option I have is this room.  Is it possible to get more out of this room or would that be a waste of effort?
What is ARC?
 
JB




ARC2:  http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/arc2/
 
Basically ARC 2 is a room correction plugin. You get a measurement microphone and the ARC2 software. The software measures your room by recording frequency sweeps at various microphone positions, then creates a correction profile so that your speakers give a flat response.
 
The focus is on EQ, but it also claims do deal with phase issues, and standing waves. 
 
The results were like night & day for me. I can't recommend it enough.
 
Although the it's not cheap, actually the measurement mic is really good as an acoustic instrument mic, so it's not like it's a one-use product.
 
M.
2018/06/03 10:19:12
msmcleod
BTW - my studio is tiny too... 1.5m x 4.5m (5' x 15').
 
I run mine 90 deg to yours, mainly so I've got room for my electronic drums:
 

 

 
2018/06/03 13:40:52
bitflipper
Shooting sound down the longer dimension of the room is the correct approach. If I was to re-arrange that room, it would be only to see if there was room to pull everything away from the wall a bit. Even 6" could help.
 
Your photo doesn't show if there is any absorption on the ceiling. That would be beneficial if the ceiling height allows it. It should ideally be at least 3" thick with an equivalent air gap above it. That would take 6" off the room's height - whether it's do-able depends on whether you have that much clearance to spare.
 
A room that size cannot reinforce bass response well, so subjectively the bass is always going to sound weak. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing. The formula for calculating the lowest frequency supported by the room is f = 1028/2L, where L is the longest dimension. (IOW, what frequency's half-wave is equal to the length of the room.) Yours comes out to about 36 Hz, so those frequencies are there - just not acoustically amplified by the room.
 
The good news is you can definitely deal with that, as long as you're careful not to compensate by over-emphasizing low frequencies in your mix. Best way to accomplish this is to just kick back and dedicate a few hours to listening to your favorite commercial recordings. That simple exercise will train your brain to recognize what a good mix sounds like on your speakers in your room. Over time you'll have no problem gauging where your bass is.
 
Also employ a spectrum analyzer to observe the low-frequency content in your reference music, so you'll then be able to double-check if your own mixes are bass-heavy just by looking at the graph.
 
These steps require little or no money. Of course, if you've got bucks to burn, sealed non-ported (or even front-ported) speakers would be an improvement. But I'd try literally everything else before blowing a couple grand on new speakers! 
2018/06/03 13:47:34
wst3
There are a few things you need to consider:
  1. symmetry is critical for a good stereo image - you seem to have that pretty well settled
  2. Placement of your loudspeakers and ears is critical - and there are no secret formulae for that, you'll need to experiment.
  3. you want as much distance as possible between your ears and the back wall - up to about 12 feet, so facing the short wall, in your case, will be better.
  4. different loudspeakers have different requirements with respect to placement - refer to the user manual or web site.
Auralex is not in the business of giving bad advice, but you also have to remember that their blueprint is free, and sometimes you get what you pay for.
 
It is possible to design a studio on paper alone, but it requires experience (which arguably they have), and time (a LOT of time), and some tools or great math skills. A long time ago they employed a brilliant studio acoustician. He has since moved on, and I don't know who is doing their design work, but I would take  it with a grain of salt. But then I'd take advice from almost any acoustician (Russ Berger, Wes Lashot, and George Ausperger come to mind) with a grain of salt<G>!
 
It isn't always practical, or financially feasible, but even a couple hours of a good designer's time could save you a lot of money and frustration, especially in a smaller space.
 
All of which may sound terribly negative, and it isn't. One of the best control rooms I ever worked in was oriented along the long wall, with a huge window into the studio, and two grown men had a difficult time passing behind the console. Yet every track that came out of there translated beautifully. A big part of that, of course, is that the studio owner knew the room, but even stuff I mixed there worked well. The studio was designed by a gentleman who spent his early years designing studios in Europe, where small control rooms were the norm. Clearly he learned his craft!
© 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account