• SONAR
  • Audio to Midi --> try it with that Piece! Not possible? (p.2)
2016/02/04 05:03:20
ChristopherM
Take a look at the waveform pic corresponding to the audio - it presumably looks like a massive cloud, which captures the constantly-changing timbre of each note that is sounding and the comings and goings of each note in the piece , as well as the swirl of overtones that give the piano part of its sound. Now consider the task of analysing that into a matching series of note-on and note-off messages of the correct pitch and volume and all of the other MIDI messages needed to make your piano sound generator sound even remotely like the real thing. Further consider that the analysis has to be done with no prior knowledge of how precisely the eventual sound generator will interpret the rather crude MIDI datastream. It is a miracle that audio-to-MIDI works on anything other than the most simple audio, which is presumably why people much more sophisticated than me thought that the polyphonic version of Melodyne was a hoax.
 
The closest thing that I have to workable audio-to-MIDI is my Roland Guitar Synth. This has only six strings as opposed to the eighty-odd of a full-blown piano and each of the six is mic'd independently via the hex pickup. The piano probably has one or two mics being shared by all strings. The guitar synth makes a just acceptable attempt at rendering my clumsy playing into MIDI, which typically requires a deal of editing and deglitching after it is captured. YMMV. 
2016/02/04 05:49:58
kennywtelejazz
Basseman
@kennywtelejazz
 
Is it possible that your son could just play the song "as well or real close " on a Midi Keyboard while you record a version of the song in SONAR ?

 
He can't play it yet, we have to write down the notes before, so he can play the half of the piece, so far as we have written it down.
But if he could play it, we don't need the notes anymore:)
 
I 'm wondering why it doesn't work, i have made a low cut, cause there's a lot of bass in this recording, but doesn't help. Piano Sound is not good to convert from midi I think.
 
Bassman.
 
 




Oh I'm sorry , did I make a mistake ? I had assumed that was your son playing in the video ...
 
I tried a number of tricks to convert that audio over to midi ...made it mono , compressed the hell out of it ...
EQ ....I got not even close 
 
Let me ask you this , how is your sons ear ? can he transcribe? or does he do most of his thing by reading music?
 
This may not help you as far as the midi / reading part goes but one of the best audio programs out there for transcribing music by ear is called Transcribe by 7th String ...the demo lasts around 30 days fully functional ..
the program itself is around 40 to 50 dollars 
I have this program ,  I have been using it for years and I can tell you that if you haven't tried it out you may want to give it a shot  ... it would certainly make your life easier if you have to get it done old school ....
 
all the best ,
 
Kenny
 
2016/02/04 13:31:18
brundlefly
Hey, Kenny. It never occurred to be to go looking for an application that could help with transcribing the old-fashioned way. Thanks for sharing. 
2016/02/04 15:11:17
Sanderxpander
Another vote for Transcribe from me, I play a lot of covers and use it all the time, great program. You could in theory do most things it does with a program like Sonar but it really has everything you need at your fingertips.
 
I would never expect an audio to midi program to help me transcribe a part to be honest. Most of the time, unless it's a super super simple part, you have to tell the software what it's missing. 
2016/02/04 15:35:15
kennywtelejazz
brundlefly
Hey, Kenny. It never occurred to be to go looking for an application that could help with transcribing the old-fashioned way. Thanks for sharing. 




Hi Dave ,
You have helped me out so much over time and my years here , I'm glad to have had something useful to mention to you 
For a musician of your caliber , the program I mentioned is absolutely excellent for doing transcribing the old - fashioned way ...
In addition to it sounding pretty darn good at various speeds , it also can go -12 to +12 with the pitch conversion .
Another nice feature is you can set loop points and export as many repetitions of your loop as you want ...
There's a lot more ...those two alone are must have's and it is very easy and fast to go there ...
Honestly I would be lost w out this program I use it for practice and stealing everybody's best licks  
nice talking with you  ,
 
Kenny
2016/02/04 16:22:36
brundlefly
kennywtelejazz
For a musician of your caliber...



Is there anything lower than .177? 
 
My first thought when I watched the Bence video was: "Thankfully I will never need to transcribe anything that difficult because I wouldn't be able to play it anyway!" 
2016/02/04 17:08:42
SimpleM
Audio to MIDI converter in SOnar only works on monophonic notes.  It can not identify harmony or overlapping notes.  There are a couple of programs that do a decent job of splitting things into individual notes but this is simply too complex for Sonar.
2016/02/04 17:11:58
Sanderxpander
While that is true for stock Sonar, many of us upgraded to Melodyne Editor when they offered a special deal to Sonar users. Melodyne Editor/Studio is arguably one of the best polyphonic note detectors around. Still it's far from perfect - your own ears are usually a lot better. 
2016/02/04 19:34:14
kitekrazy1
There is no holy grail in Audio to midi conversion.   I tried Melodyne and Live's.  Both came up with different results and in some cases Live did a better job.
 
 Transcribe BTW is great.
2016/02/04 20:27:29
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
The difficulty of the piece of music has nothing to do with how well it can be transcribed with a tool like Melodyne.
In fact I've seen Melodyne transcribe much crazier stuff than that particular piece. What makes that hard are those octave ostinatos where hes hammering the keys hard. That generates a cloud of overtones around the right hand part which probably confuses the algorithms. Melodyne does a pretty darn good job with polyphony but not not so much with complex sounds. If the rest of the piano wasn't ringing it may have detected that fine.
How fast the notes are played isn't the problem, its how many notes and overtones are simultaneously sounding that can cause issues.
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