My favorite tweak!!! Go to Device Manager and disable High Definition Audio Controller in System Devices folder. That one tweak has helped many of us tremendously!

My favourite tip: before recording anything with a microphone, press E to disable ALL Fx, record, then hit E again.

Anderton
Are you using any plug-ins with look-ahead, maximizers or transient shapers?

This! Convolution reverbs and compressor/limiters are other common offenders.
 
Go back to what originally eliminated the latency for the OP - bypassing all FX plugins. Not mentioned is that plugins with lookahead buffers trigger SONAR's automatic Plugin Delay Compensation which delays output of all other tracks in the project to sync with the track/bus that has the PDC-inducing plugin on it. The reason you don't hear it initially is that SONAR does not calculate and apply PDC until playback is started the first time.
 
You can either bypass the plugin, substitute something that doesn't have a lookahead buffer or hit the PDC [bypass] button in the Mix Module to temporarily override PDC on audio tracks with input monitoring enabled, allowing you to monitor live input without PDC to record a new track.
 

brundlefly

Anderton
Are you using any plug-ins with look-ahead, maximizers or transient shapers?

This! Convolution reverbs and compressor/limiters are other common offenders.
 
Go back to what originally eliminated the latency for the OP - bypassing all FX plugins. Not mentioned is that plugins with lookahead buffers trigger SONAR's automatic Plugin Delay Compensation which delays output of all other tracks in the project to sync with the track/bus that has the PDC-inducing plugin on it. The reason you don't hear it initially is that SONAR does not calculate and apply PDC until playback is started the first time.
 
You can either bypass the plugin, substitute something that doesn't have a lookahead buffer or hit the PDC [bypass] button in the Mix Module to temporarily override PDC on audio tracks with input monitoring enabled, allowing you to monitor live input without PDC to record a new track.
 

 So let me get this correctly. I don't use Sonar very much for soft synth recording, but sometime I really need it.
 
Lets say I put an offending plug on my already recorded vocal track. Then I use a soft synth with a midi controller in "real time" to record a new track, Sonar will be required to insert latency to compensate for the Vocal track's look ahead buffers(?).  My soft synth will have latency that has nothing to do with the audio interface settings.
 
I suppose this makes sense. I always figured that high latency plugs just delayed the start time a a little bit, and then the soft synths would be compensated for and have audio interface minimum latency, but evidently I was incorrect (as all too often).
 
I also imagine that besides hitting the E button, you could freeze or archive the offending tracks instead.
 
Is there a quick way to know the latency of a plug? Waves publishes a table of their products.  I notice most of their plugs have zero latency, but some of the masterings go high. 6027 samples for the L-3-16 multichannel limiter.  JJP Vocals, which I use probably more than I should, takes 473 samples.
 
I use the L2 limiter on almost every track in a project. I assume the 64 sample latency is not cumulative. If I put 4 instances on four tracks I will still only have 64 sample latency added to the overall system.  Right? I hope?
 
Thanks so much for clarifying this issue.
 
 
 
 

pharohoknaughty
Lets say I put an offending plug on my already recorded vocal track. Then I use a soft synth with a midi controller in "real time" to record a new track, Sonar will be required to insert latency to compensate for the Vocal track's look ahead buffers(?).

 
No, it's not tracks that have look ahead buffers, it's VSTs. In some situations a VST cannot operate on sample 1 until it has seen enough later samples to know what to do with sample 1.
 
eg. You have a surgical EQ on a track that removes 100Hz hum. Your track is recorded at 44100 samples per second. So, for the EQ to detect cycles that last 1/100th of a second, it will need to see 441 samples (44100 / 100) to have seen that cycle happen once. There simply isn't enough information before that point, so it needs to look ahead to sample 441 before it can even output sample 1.
 
(NB. Before synth developers and electrical engineers bombard me with talk about Fourier transforms and derivatives and Nyquist limits, I know that this isn't strictly true, but obviously the general concept of 'the plugin needs a chunk of samples before being able to process even the first one' is true and this is the broadly intuitive reason why.)
 

I suppose this makes sense. I always figured that high latency plugs just delayed the start time a a little bit, and then the soft synths would be compensated for and have audio interface minimum latency, but evidently I was incorrect (as all too often).

 
Latency is the time difference between a sample going in and a sample coming out. A delayed start time is the symptom, not the cure. :) The compensation we usually talk about is Sonar being careful to line up the delayed start times so that everything plays back in sync, but there's no way to escape the intrinsic delay in processing a sample. If you want to reduce the latency, the plugin that causes it needs to come off the track.
 

I use the L2 limiter on almost every track in a project. I assume the 64 sample latency is not cumulative. If I put 4 instances on four tracks I will still only have 64 sample latency added to the overall system.  Right? I hope?

 
Delay from plugins on separate tracks won't be cumulative - the project will have whatever is the worst latency across each of the tracks. However, plugins on a single track - and on any buses that the track feeds - will be cumulative, as the samples make their way through the plugin pipeline.

Skyline_UK
I usually get legged up by my FabFilter plugins; they're great but will cause latency (on MIDI also).

I just got the Comp and EQ but haven't had a chance to work with them yet.   Isn't there a "processing mode" you select that determines the latencies?  I'd expect when in tracking mode (or whatever they call it), latencies would be negligible... mastering mode (linear phase?) would definitely add to the latency.

Kylotan
No, it's not tracks that have look ahead buffers, it's VSTs. In some situations a VST cannot operate on sample 1 until it has seen enough later samples to know what to do with sample 1...etc.

 
Your post is an excellent explanation.
 

pharohoknaughty
I also imagine that besides hitting the E button, you could freeze or archive the offending tracks instead.

Yes freezing/archiving is an option, as-is just bypassing the particular plugin(s) that add latency; it's not necessary to bypass everything.
 
Also, I should have mentioned that the PDC bypass function will only work if the offending plugin is not on the track or in the downstream chain that you're monitoring.
 
Recording MIDI/soft synths introduces additional complications because live MIDI input can't be compensated in real-time (and is not compensated after the fact) for the PDC-delayed audio output from the metronome and existing tracks you're using as a timing reference.
 
The bottom line is that you should always endeavor to record at the lowest possible latency and avoid using PDC-inducing plugins until everything is tracked and monitoring latency no longer matters.

I know this thread is getting old, but so am I.
 
I was wondering what would happen if I put my VST instrument in a minimalist VST Host, like VSTHost or SAVIhost.
 
Then use Sonar as normal with my usual high latency plugs.
 
This would seemingly separate the latency of the audio processing from the synth response, getting best of both worlds.
 
Anyone figured out how to use a small VST host with low latency that then runs into Sonar and works as a virtual instrument?
 
Thanks

I would imagine the first problem you'd have would be sorting out the audio driver between two applications both trying to use it at the same time.

In any case, it doesn't matter how low the minimum latency of the host itself is, the problem is the latency induced by the plugin used.

Sonar itself is a VST host capable of very low latencies. I can track audio monitored via Sonar's track echo with a reliable round trip of about 6 milliseconds, usually with a bunch of plugins active.

Insert a plugin that has high latency though and Sonar automatically increases the latency to keep everything together. Inserting the plugin into a different host is unlikely to reduce the plugin's inherent minimum latency.

One strategy that works is to use low latency plugins while tracking, then replace them with the ones that incur higher latency at the mixing stage.