• SONAR
  • Namm 2016 - Gibson should be ashamed.... (p.7)
2016/01/26 00:01:46
Vastman
Glad your "just passing by"...
2016/01/26 02:10:30
tenfoot
Apparently Music Group booked a large area to display nothing:
 
 
http://forum.music-group....read.php?9838-Namm-MIA
 
I am seeing a pattern. Perhaps with the digital age trade show's days are numbered?
 
2016/01/26 11:57:33
Unknowen
Vastman
Glad your "just passing by"...


Well I stopped back just for you..... maybe if you believe all the stuff in you boring lectures oh wait I mean songs and how you want to change things you need to start with yourself AND maybe in ten thousand years you will see as far as I see.. then maybe I will give you the opportunity to talk to me. but until then unless you have something "related" to any comment I make here just shut up and STOP harassing me!
2016/01/26 13:51:10
ampfixer
Dave000
Vastman
Glad your "just passing by"...


Well I stopped back just for you..... maybe if you believe all the stuff in you boring lectures oh wait I mean songs and how you want to change things you need to start with yourself AND maybe in ten thousand years you will see as far as I see.. then maybe I will give you the opportunity to talk to me. but until then unless you have something "related" to any comment I make here just shut up and STOP harassing me!




Hey Dave, why not simply go away* and stop bothering people that try and contribute. You add nothing of value. Maybe in 10,000 years I'll understand you, but I don't think that would be long enough.
 
 
*Mod Edit
2016/01/26 17:19:04
denverdrummer
NAMM in general has becoming less and less of an attraction.  In this economy companies are trying to cut budgets, and the brick and morter music stores are slowly going away, in favor of online retail.
 
NAMM was all about manufacturers giving sales pitches to retailers and when the "reseller" is the Cakewalk online store, or Steam, or the Windows Market place, what is the point of investing a lot of dollars in advertising things when Twitter, Facebook and You Tube are far better at reaching the potential customers.
 
 
2016/01/26 18:46:30
robert_e_bone
Alright - folks - please knock off the back and forth bashing.  It serves no purpose for any furthering of the forum's intent, and is not allowed.
 
Please consider either just agreeing to disagree, or consider blocking each other from seeing the other one's posts.
 
Thanks, :)
 
Bob Bone
 
2016/01/27 01:53:23
Anderton
Paul P
It'll be interesting to hear what Craig has to say on this subject, once he gets back.



Well, I do take requests ...Andrew pretty much nailed it from the Cakewalk standpoint. But, here's another perspective and remember, I speak here for myself - not Cakewalk or Gibson.
 
NAMM stands for National Association of Music Merchants - retailers. Software is not much of a retail business any more, it's mostly downloads. When Apple announced Logic for $199, made it available only from the App Store, and pulled it from retail shelves, that pretty much marked the beginning of the end for selling software at retail (not to mention the decline of Pro Tools' Mac market share). This also had serious consequences for smaller companies that develop Mac software, like MOTU; fortunately they had a strong audio interface business to keep them going. Windows has traditionally had a somewhat smaller share of the music market than the Mac, so it had even less "pull" with retailers to stay on store shelves after the Mac stuff went away.
 
Another reality is that the number of audio interfaces outsells the number of DAWs sold or updated by a huge margin every month. So either people are using 7 or 8 interfaces with their copy of SONAR or Cubase or whatever, or...there are a lot of people stealing software via torrents.
 
Native Instruments and Ableton stopped doing trade shows a long time ago. Both took the huge sums of money required to participate, and re-invested it in growing their companies. Both are extremely successful...draw your own conclusions as to how "necessary" trade shows are for software companies.
 
At the inMusic booth, Sonivox and AIR were dropped from the list of companies - inMusic is getting out of the software business because they can't make any money from it. All those companies from a few years back selling iPad apps? Gone. The only truly successful ones are making apps part of a hardware/software combination, like IK Multimedia. Even Steinberg was relegated to a small demo space in the huge Yamaha Marquis ballroom at the Marriott hotel. 
 
The attitude of some people on this forum makes it obvious why software companies are having such a hard time: people don't want to pay what's required for these companies to grow and prosper. They have this unrealistic sense of entitlement that they should be able to pay $50 - $150 a year in a tiny, tiny business and get flawless code, insanely great support, discounts, their pet feature requests implemented, deals, and a big trade show presence. Frankly, what's amazing is that Cakewalk has delivered what it has delivered, but that's only because of the company's dedication and Gibson's commitment. No, I don't take off weekends. And with very rare exceptions, neither do Andrew or Noel. But if a job needs to be done...I worked 14 hours straight last Saturday, Sunday, and Monday prior to NAMM to finish the eZine and do final quality control on the Gibson Bass Collection expansion pack. I'm not asking for sympathy, I'm just asking for people not to post ridiculous speculation about Gibson, Cakewalk, NAMM shows, and tax writeoffs. I got home at 5 AM, it's 12:30 AM the next day, and I'm writing this because...I was asked to. So I am.
 
FWIW many companies basically subsidize their software through sales of interface hardware (or in the case of Apple, $800,000,000,000 in the bank and a zillion iPhones; or in the case of Reaper, selling Winamp to AOL back in the day for $500,000,000) - remember, hardware can't be downloaded from a torrent. So, software-only companies have to do whatever they can to try and meet the unrealistic expectations of consumers who are unaware of the realities of being in business. In today's world, a big trade show presence for a small company makes zero sense. IMHO a company like Cakewalk might do better by taking the money they would spend on a trade show, and setting it on fire. That way they wouldn't have to go to the show, and could stay back at the office and get real work done, which ultimately would be far more beneficial for all the end users. 
 
And yes, I was at the show, but in a very different context from demoing SONAR. I moderated a panel discussion with the creme de la creme of the keyboard world, as well as participated on a panel with representatives from the MIDI Association, Google, Microsoft, Roland, and Roli about extensions to the MIDI spec (e.g., MPE and Bluetooth MIDI). I participated in another panel on "building a band in the digital age" with Stewart Copeland of the Police, Brian Hardgroove from Public Enemy, and representatives from Sennheiser, WholeWorldBand.com, and ReverbNation.com. I'm also on the board of the TEC Awards, and had several meetings involving that and its future direction with the head of the TEC Foundation, Joe Lamond from NAMM, Elliot Scheiner, Erik Tarkanian, etc. etc. and of course I attended the awards.
 
But NAMM shows also take on a life of their own. I was not prepared for how many manufacturers wanted to meet and talk about the resurgence of Harmony Central, for which I am Editorial Director. Many are looking to it to become "the Switzerland of the industry" that gets people excited about playing, recording, and listening to music. After almost a year-long (and difficult) struggle to fix the damage that had been done prior to Gibson's acquisition, this was kind of our "coming out" party to show off the mobile-friendly structure and other enhancements. We even had companies contact us about setting up meetings because they wanted to advertise with us. That's unheard of - usually the media has to pester companies to advertise.
 
I also did quite a bit behind the scenes on behalf of Cakewalk. I am very close (cross fingers) to putting together a partnership which I think will benefit the Cakewalk community FAR more than my answering questions in the Gibson booth about when SONAR's going to be available for the Mac . Understandably I can't go into details about these kinds of things, but suffice it to say I am always on the lookout for the Cakewalk community's best interests.
 
Finally, Gibson has a world-wide team of product specialists that visit music stores for one-on-one training and discussions with store personnel and managers. This is vastly more effective than what can be done at NAMM. However, where a NAMM show shines is for the kind of space Gibson's guitar divisions are in this year. The 2016 models have been extremely popular, but it's not possible for the product specialists to bring every model Gibson makes to a store. There was a back area of the Gibson booth, separate from the public, where dealers could check out all the latest Gibson guitars in depth.
 
Trade shows are becoming more relevant for some product categories and less relevant for others. Rather than waste resources on a major presence at NAMM, Cakewalk instead is devoting those resources to what actually matters...like working on really cool updates for 2016. I suspect those who complain about Cakewalk's lack of presence at NAMM would also be first in line to complain if the 2016 updates didn't meet their expectations...because the company blew its resources on a trade show. 
2016/01/27 09:22:07
ampfixer
Another look behind the curtain. Thanks for that Craig.
2016/01/27 10:10:44
jbow
Another reality is that the number of audio interfaces outsells the number of DAWs sold or updated by a huge margin every month. So either people are using 7 or 8 interfaces with their copy of SONAR or Cubase or whatever, or...there are a lot of people stealing software via torrents.
 
I hate a thief. I wish there were a way to put a self destruct code in Sonar that would wipe out a whole drive unless the software is determined to be pirated. I know it isn't something that can happen since now in many places software can be sold as used. I know it isn't realistic but I wish it was.
 
The attitude of some people on this forum makes it obvious why software companies are having such a hard time: people don't want to pay what's required for these companies to grow and prosper. They have this unrealistic sense of entitlement that they should be able to pay $50 - $150 a year in a tiny, tiny business and get flawless code, insanely great support, discounts, their pet feature requests implemented, deals, and a big trade show presence. Frankly, what's amazing is that Cakewalk has delivered what it has delivered, but that's only because of the company's dedication and Gibson's commitment. No, I don't take off weekends. And with very rare exceptions, neither do Andrew or Noel. But if a job needs to be done...I worked 14 hours straight last Saturday, Sunday, and Monday prior to NAMM to finish the eZine and do final quality control on the Gibson Bass Collection expansion pack. I'm not asking for sympathy, I'm just asking for people not to post ridiculous speculation about Gibson, Cakewalk, NAMM shows, and tax writeoffs. I got home at 5 AM, it's 12:30 AM the next day, and I'm writing this because...I was asked to. So I am.
 
 
Thank you Cakewalk Andrew, Noel, everyone else there... and Craig. This is one reason I chose to use Cakewalk's discount for 2016 rather than the cheaper discount from an online shop. I could have saved about $15 but I'm sure that part of the lesser payment would have gone to the online shop. I am not against taking a discount but I DO want Cakewalk to make money. We ALL benefit if Cakewalk is profitable. I want the employees to make a good living as well as the company to make a profit after having enough money for good R&D.
Again, thank you.
 
I know for a fact that Cakewalk is a generous company and they care about their users. I have seen it. Cakewalk is a rare gem in this world of online business.
 
After reading more and having a better understanding on NAMM and where the DAW fits in the whole thing. I think that most if not all who see Sonar on a computer, on a table, in the Gibson booth, know what it is. It is not a retail store. I had NO idea of the costs and I imagine if not for Gibson, Cakewalk would not have been there at all. Who can blame Gibson for concentrating on their guitars and hardware, not me. I don't think for a minute that Gibson does not want Cakewalk to succeed, I think that they do.
Like it or not, everything changes and this will too. Eventually something will replace the DAW just like the DAW replaced (mostly) tape. 20 years ago 4 and 8 track cassette recorders and ADATs were the thing.
Like it or not, things are moving toward mobile, for the masses, for the person who just wants to record a song. Engineers will still use the DAW or something else for a long time... but things ALWAYS change and we can never predict what the change will be or we would all be multi millionaires by the time we reach 50 years old because we would know how to invest, what will be collectable, etc.
We should be glad to have what we have. I know I am. Things (in recording) are SO much easier, SO much better, and SO much more affordable today (for the amateur) than anytime in the past.
 
Sorry, I got carried away, but really.
 
J
 
2016/01/27 11:06:07
FCCfirstclass
Great post jbow 
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