• SONAR
  • Still running x3 producer. How do I slow down a song after it's partially recorded guys?
2016/01/21 23:24:27
ChuckC
So I record 8 songs from a band with live drums (12 mics), bass, and a DI scratch guitar simultaneously.   After the fact... way after, they decide one of the songs is too fast. (Their mistake, not mine) however, other wise the drum and bass parts were solid and good takes.  Now, If I just change the bpm on the project from 162 bpm to say 158 everything gets out of whack even though they are all audio tracks.  No midi, no synths.  I figured they would either a) not change at all or b) all change together... nope.  Everything goes out of sync.  So how can I lock them together and slow the whole song down a bit, then be able to record the rest of the parts and reserve the ability to mix the tracks later?  Thank you all in advance.   Help is appreciated.
2016/01/22 03:07:06
brundlefly
If the clips don't all start at time zero, they will go out of sync because audio clip start times are locked to M:B:T time by default. You can select all clips, and change the timebase to Absolute in clip properties (see the Clips tab of the Inspector) to stop that from happening.
 
But if you want to change the tempo of the project, and have all the audio audio stay synced with the timeline, you don't want to do that.  What you want to do instead is enable Audiosnap Clip Follows Project in Autostretch mode on all the clips before changing the tempo. This can be done using the Audiosnap Palette or the Audiosnap section of the Clips tab in the Inspector.
 
By default, SONAR will use a quick and dirty "Groove Clip" algorithm to do the stretching in real-time during playback. But you should read up on using different offline render algorithms for the different instruments to get the best results when bouncing down the stretched audio.
 
Slowing things down (stretching) tends not to work as well as speeding them up (compressing). But the 2.5% stretch you're contemplating might not be too bad. It depends on how critical the sound quality is for this project. You probably wouldn't want to produce anything for public release based on stretched audio.
2016/01/22 03:40:22
jih64
I found this useful when I needed to change the tempo of an entire song after it was done, I originally posted a question because in REAPER, which I was using way more than Sonar at the time you could just change the tempo and everything was fine, but in X3 Producer when I tried the same it was out of whack as you know, Craig Anderton answered my question and then shortly after tidied it up and put it in his Tips and Tricks thing.
 
Works a treat, and not as complicated as it seems.
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3099513
2016/01/22 10:20:32
brundlefly
With all due respect to Craig's power-user status, the method I suggested is much simpler and will yield the same musical result without having to mess with your clip sizes.
 
- Ctrl+A to select all clips
- Open the Clip tab of the Track Inspector
- Expand the Audiosnap section
- Check the 'Enable' box (give it minute to complete if the project is large and/or your PC is slow)
- Check 'Follow Proj Tempo'
- Change the tempo
2016/01/22 11:22:33
Afrodrum
I am surprised there are so many ways to do it. 
 
I use "Length" process. Select clips (expand them if they do not start at Zero point), goto Process->Length->check Stretch Audio+choose Radius Mix Advanced (I take "advanced" because it sounds cooler but have no clue what is wrong with "not advanced") and decide on %, in your case 102% or 103%.
 
The advantage is that if you have any tempo fluctuations in a song they will all be reflected as they are in original material.
2016/01/22 12:10:40
icontakt
brundlefly
With all due respect to Craig's power-user status, the method I suggested is much simpler and will yield the same musical result without having to mess with your clip sizes.
 
- Ctrl+A to select all clips
- Open the Clip tab of the Track Inspector
- Expand the Audiosnap section
- Check the 'Enable' box (give it minute to complete if the project is large and/or your PC is slow)
- Check 'Follow Proj Tempo'
- Change the tempo


 
If this is the best method (at least it looks the simplest), I seriously think Cakewalk should include it in the reference guide. 
2016/01/22 13:13:29
brundlefly
I haven't looked, but I'm guessing the Ref. Guide has an example that uses the Audiosnap Palette to enable Autostretch. I've just gotten in the habit of using the Inspector since it's usually already open, doesn't block you view of the clips pane, and also lets you take care of things that could interfere like having locked, flattened comp clips.
 
There's a CakeTV/NAMM video somewhere that demos the basic steps (dating to the release of X1 IIRC).
 
 
2016/01/22 13:38:07
brundlefly
From the Ref. Guide:
 
To change a project’s tempo
1. Use the File > Open command to open the desired project.
2. Use the Edit > Select > All command.
3. Press ALT+A to open the AudioSnap palette.
4. Zoom in (or press F) to get a better look at your clips.
5. With all clips still selected, enable the Clip Follows Project Tempo button in the AudioSnap palette.
All the clips display the Auto Stretch icon , and will now conform to any new or future tempo changes.
6. In the Control Bar’s Transport module, click the Tempo value , type the desired tempo value, and
press ENTER.
 
2016/01/22 18:04:36
ChuckC
I appreciate the help here guys, however, No they don't all start at zero, some of the clips have already been copied/pasted into spaces other than the original time stamp...  I have tried the above suggestions following the instructions carefully and in every case as soon as I change the tempo, everything goes to chaos, hap-hazard noise.  Like every track (including the drums that were all tracked together changes to its own time signature.  It no longer represents music...  It's noise.  It's what a headache sounds like.  It's like listening to a band with an out-of-tune bass player...  haha
 
  Anyway, if anyone has any other suggestions to try I am all ears!
2016/01/22 19:23:03
brundlefly
Check for locked clips as I mentioned in my second post. Basically if you zoom out so you can see the whole project before you change the tempo you should not see anything change position or length (except the selection highlight). If you do, something didn't follow the tempo change because it was locked or set to Absolute timebase or something.
 
If you continue to have trouble, the only way I can really think I might help you further would be to have a copy of the project. I probably wouldn't need the audio files; the dummy audio that SONAR inserts when files aren't found would be sufficient to see what's going on.
 
PM me for an e-mail address if you want to do that.
 
 
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