Hi guys! 
 
Just wanted to know how you guys deal with VST drum machines in Sonar? I'm currently using Sonar X3 and by biggest PIA are VST drum machines. Why? 
 
My favorite drum machines don't have MIDI out for some reason and for some reason you're not able to record VST drum machines in Sonar either and the worst thing is that most drum machines don't even have a stepsequencing for patterns (AudioRealism being one of those machines that actually has that). 
And I don't really fancy Sonar X3s stepsequencer since most of the times MIDI-channels tend to be really random, at least when using Session Drummer. 
 
So most of the time I just use drum-machines own sequencer and when I'm done with drum sounds I just bounce the WAV out and replace the VST with that wav. For some reason freezing wont work either (I suppose because there is not actual midi-information in there)..
 
Anyway, I just wanted to know if you guys have any good workflows using VST drum-machines? 
 
-Teo

I'm confused and need to clear something up before I attempt to answer this.
 
When you say, "VST drum machines" are you talking hardware or software ?
 
AFIK there's no such thing as a hardware VST drum machine so you must therefore be referring to software
such as session drummer or addictive drums or BFD Eco/BFD3 or superior drummer in which case I'm even more confused (or one of us is)
You just can't use a vst drum without midi.
 
So first tell us what drum vst your are using and what problem are you trying to overcome.
 
I exclusively use BFD3 these days although I still keep the others for reference and for helping others out.
 
Steve

This seems to be a case of wanting to drag your old technology into current technology. What drum machine are you using? I have pre-MIDI drum machines in my studio and never use them as anything that I have ever owned is readily available as a download. The most popular of these are available in the VSTs that you will have currently installed with Sonar. Step sequencing is more than compensated for in Sonar. so it may be a question of changing your way of programming. It is a simple enough procedure to create a pattern and block copy this as many times as possible even if you don't want to use the multitude of drum patterns immediately at you disposal with Session Drummer or Addictive Drums. 

I'm guessing that Funkbear has lots of midi drum tracks/songs in his drum machine he wants to get on to his computer rather than have to write them all out again.
I think you're just going to have to knuckle down and bite the bullet there Funkbear 
 
Steve

Hey guys! I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough! And thanks for quick replys!
 
I was referring to VST drum machines, such as D16 stuff, drumazon, nepheton and niphonat. 
 
Maybe I can be a bit more clear with my problems. I suppose it's more like I'd like to things to be as convenient as possible. 
 
First of all, some virtual drum machines, like Drumazon, doesn't have MIDI-output nor (at least i'm not aware) pattern based play to use in Sonar stepsequencer, and when I'm not able to record virtual drum machines in Sonar if they don't have MIDI-output.. so what's the best way to use such a drum-machine? Just use Sonar step sequencer? Not not use that nice GUI of that drum machine? Especially because then I can't use ie. virtual drum machines suffle? Or Am I missing something here? 
 
My problem with Session Drummer is that it's not very practical, at least I don't find it practical. I don't fancy those in-built sounds so much, especially when I've my sample libraries, so I will be changing samples and having ie. 3 snare samples and 3 bass drum samples, not to mention that changing one sample requires 3 mouse clicks, so browsing 100 snare sounds takes quite a while..  and in Session drummers MIDI-track numbers and GUI is a total mess. 
 
But yeah, I suppose there is not a very good solution here. I actually didn't use any DAW for quite a long while just because I thought user interfaces were so unpractical. Sonar X1 was the first one I liked, and believe me I tried every single DAW out there after ~2000 or so. 
 
Gotta just bite the bullet I suppose. 
 
Thanks guys!
 
ps. Nice guitar Twaddle!
 

drumazon has its own sequencer, no?

Seems to be an issue of not understanding the flow (maybe.) 
In Sonar, you can trigger the drums with MIDI while Sonar is recording the MIDI performance.  The recording is done before the data hits the VST, not after.  The audio is rendered from the same MIDI performance that you recorded.
 
Then you can use that MIDI data to play different drum samplers, or use Drum Maps for multiple drum samplers, or, use a CAL script to split to note and have each drum (or cymbal) on its own track.
 
Brian

Lawp: Yes, drumazon has it's own sequencer allright, but since it lacks the pattern player so that you could play certain pattern from Sonar's midi-sequencer, so I'm not able to play different patterns from drumazon so I've to bounce individual patterns, ie. fills and all that, to wavs and then bring them back to Sonar, which is not very cool. Especially because I tend to sidechain stuff so I actually have to bounce and bring back every track separately, which is totally not cool. 
 
Stone House Studios: Yeah, I hope i'm this wrong and I can figure out how it should be. I'm aware that I can play ie. Drumazon with Sonars step-sequencer but there are a few reasons i'm not very keen to this: 
 
1.) I can't save those patches/patterns nicely, like I could do when using Drumazons stepsequencer, meaning I can save the pattern and the MIDI-data in single file. 
 
2.) I'd like to be able to browse sound/midi presets effortlessly, the same way I can do in a normal drum machine. I know this is sort of "lazy" for some people but I like it because I can find stuff that surprises me, ie. stuff that I wouldn't have thought to fit into the song. And I like to start quickly with my drums.
 
But yeah, I suppose I just should use the Sonars internal step-sequencer. But i'm just so used to real life drum machines that not being able to use VST drum machines GUI bothers me. 
 
Thanks a ton guys!
 
Btw, how do you guys do your drums? You seem to know this stuff so it would be really helpful to hear! 

Why can't you save the Midi file from Drumazon and import it into Sonar? That would seem to do what you want based on your post. Otherwise, you'll want some type of Midi instrument, either a keyboard or something with pads, so that you can play the drums and record what you play into Sonar.
 
Regards,
Dan
 

 
1.) I can't save those patches/patterns nicely, like I could do when using Drumazons stepsequencer, meaning I can save the pattern and the MIDI-data in single file.

2.) I'd like to be able to browse sound/midi presets effortlessly, the same way I can do in a normal drum machine. I know this is sort of "lazy" for some people but I like it because I can find stuff that surprises me, ie. stuff that I wouldn't have thought to fit into the song. And I like to start quickly with my drums.
 

 
You don't have to put midi patterns into Sonar's step sequencer to hear them - you just drag and drop them onto a midi track that is assigned to play through a drum synth. The patterns are called clips in Sonar terminology.
 
You can also click on them in the media browser and they play!
 
Brian