• SONAR
  • Win 10 - Why Leave Win 7? (p.11)
2015/08/20 08:25:45
BobF
Doktor Avalanche
... Then again I regarded 8 a great success, loved it. Silly it all went to bits over a stupid start menu/start screen. Most people didn't realize they could configure it the way they want at least with 8.1, or just could not be bothered. All the start screen was anyway was an extra large start menu.



Even 8.0 was fixed in a coupla minutes with classic shell ...
 
2015/08/20 12:59:15
michael diemer
slartabartfast
Doktor Avalanche

When Cakewalk drops support of Win7 or Win8 for Sonar, because the latest Microsoft libraries force them to do so, much like when they had to drop Vista support, don't say I didn't warn you! Also please don't expect the wait for that to happen to be as long as Vista had.

Not only that your drivers and plugins suppliers will also be forgetting about these OS's.




Or another way to look at it is that your current large investment in hardware/drivers and plugins will gradually stop working as you move on to an "improved experience" that will cost you more in trouble and treasure than just the cost of a "free" upgrade, and far more than just staying with an OS on which current products will work. As Cakewalk moves into the future, and breaks with the past, your investment in time and stuff will be eroded. The only defense is to learn to use what you have and stop dreaming that the newest system is going to make your music better. If a violinist had to keep up with an instrument that is adding another string every couple of years, it would not necessarily make it a better violin, nor would it make him a better violinist. Pro Audio was a major improvement over Cakewalk (the sequencer, not the company) in terms of new features for those so inclined. The difference between X1 and X3 not so much. Sure the bugs in your current version will never be fixed unless you constantly get something new, but the new bugs will never be fixed without getting something new either, even if it is just the next monthly update while waiting to pay the next yearly membership/subscription fee. 


Exactly. I continue to be quite happy with 8.5.3 on Windows Seven Pro. I see no reason for that to change until 2020. Even then, I can continue, keeping that computer offline. But I think by then, I will have made a clean break from Windows, and be happily making music on Linux, probably with Reaper. In fact, the break could be coming soon, as Reaper will be incorporating a score editor soon. Then I will have a free OS, with free updates, and a DAW that cost a whopping $60.00. And Microsoft and whoever else won't be spying on me.
2015/08/20 12:59:17
michael diemer
Duplicate deleted.
2015/08/20 13:24:18
arachnaut
Doktor Avalanche
... All the start screen was anyway was an extra large start menu.




Actually I would beg to differ a little here.
 
The model for the Win 8 start screen was a touch pad with a fingerprint as the de facto scale factor. That made things much larger than a mouse pointer requires. But, moreover, the model was flat, not hierarchical. One had to scroll to see everything. With a mouse pointer and a hierarchical structure (folders, if you will), it was much easier to organize into compartments of functions that could all be seen in a small area.
 
The start screen has no folders and the compartments are small columnar areas with names at the top. That made scrolling over a large installation rather tedious, even if one placed all the most common stuff on the main screen area. So there is a tradeoff of extra mouse clicks into a hierarchy or extra hand swipes to move over a screen.
 
Naturally desktop mouse users would stay on the desktop where things were practically unchanged since Windows 7, so long as a start button replacement was provided.
 
In Windows 10, I still use the Classic Start Button enhancement as my 'Start' corner icon, but configure the Windows key to trigger the Win 10 Start menu. So I can use either rather easily.
 
My own feeling is that touch oriented things are best suited to small devices where portability is important and one doesn't want to carry a bunch of add-ons like a mouse or keypad.
 
If I had my way, this would all be voice activated like Star Trek computers so we could avoid all physical gestures.
 
One thing I find happening often on my laptop is that the touchpad sometimes triggers a mouse click event and things get activated/launched rather than selected/highlighted. The settings have to be tweaked and the fingers have to be trained. If I went to a different computer I might have to re-learn those instincts. I don't know if the touchscreen has similar issues. I do have a 10-point touchscreen, but I almost never use it. My hands stay in the keyboard/mouse area, not the screen area.
 
I suppose in the end it all boils down to one's habitual ways of working as seeming the best way to do things. And we all have a reluctance to change long-established habits.
 
Before the mouse came along, everything was keyboard-oriented and the new-fangled mouse seemed like an unnecessary add-on, but now I think of it as a keyboard extension.
 
 
2015/08/20 13:25:31
stxx
I went to 10 and stayed for under and after an hour went back to 7 (which to my surprise both the upgrade to 10 AND the revert back worked perfectly!)    First, the Firewire controller and drivers would not load.   I have FW 1884 that uses legacy FW driver and that would be come up.   There are fixes out there that I looked up but I just didn;t want to go through that.   Also, some of my plugin's stopped working or wouldn't load correctly and since everything really was working perfectly on 7 and I started to panic and get an anxiety attack, I went back to 7 which I think is awesome anyway.   I had told myself awhile ago,  if it ain't broke, don't fix it so why I went to it 10 in the first place really is beyond me.    Someone also had posted some SONAR performance comparisons between 7 and 10 and there really was not any major compelling data to really support a move.   As for Windows support, I have NEVER in the now 20 some odd years of using Windows (since 3.1) ever call Microsoft for support so the fact that at some point, likely MANY years away, when Win 7 goes out of lifecycle, whatever is wrong will likely have a solution out there in some knowledge base or forum and I still won't ever need to call them.  
 
Latest song fro my latest CD release coming up:
http://allenlind.com/bugs..2015/01%20Track%201.mp3
2015/08/20 14:09:06
kitekrazy1
stxx
I went to 10 and stayed for under and after an hour went back to 7 (which to my surprise both the upgrade to 10 AND the revert back worked perfectly!)    First, the Firewire controller and drivers would not load.   I have FW 1884 that uses legacy FW driver and that would be come up.   There are fixes out there that I looked up but I just didn;t want to go through that.   Also, some of my plugin's stopped working or wouldn't load correctly and since everything really was working perfectly on 7 and I started to panic and get an anxiety attack, I went back to 7 which I think is awesome anyway.   I had told myself awhile ago,  if it ain't broke, don't fix it so why I went to it 10 in the first place really is beyond me.    Someone also had posted some SONAR performance comparisons between 7 and 10 and there really was not any major compelling data to really support a move.   As for Windows support, I have NEVER in the now 20 some odd years of using Windows (since 3.1) ever call Microsoft for support so the fact that at some point, likely MANY years away, when Win 7 goes out of lifecycle, whatever is wrong will likely have a solution out there in some knowledge base or forum and I still won't ever need to call them.  
 
Latest song fro my latest CD release coming up:
http://allenlind.com/bugs..2015/01%20Track%201.mp3




My FW410 works in W10.  Are you using onboard firewire?
2015/08/20 17:14:04
stxx
I'm not using onboard FW.  I have TI chipset FW adapters and an PCI(e) expansion box.  Also I have a focusrite saffire  56 where I mix and that was not coming online either which is also FW.    For some of this, the legacy drivers are needed and not readily supported without a fix.   I also have a lot of other stuff and was generating error messages including some plugins that wouldn't load.  I just wasn't ready for these headaches.  In the end, I know I could have made all this work eventually.... but why?   There are no real benefits as far as I can tell.   I expect Sonar and Win 7 to work for some time to come.   By the time it doesn't I'll likely be ready for a new computer anyway...   My music machine is dedicated to music so I couldn't care less really about many of the other Win 10 features.    Better multitasking certainly is a consideration but that hasn't caused me issues yet so that benefit now goes in the "so what?" column.
2015/08/20 19:03:53
kitekrazy1
I've noticed a lot of FW Sapphires going on sale. I wonder if those will be future doorstops.  The latest Focusrite FW units will work with a Thunderbolt adapter.
I hope you take this up with Focusrite support.  My list of bo not buy hardware vendors gets longer. If I could do it all over again it would be nothing but RME and possibly Focusrite.
I have an old Intel machine that has onboard FW. That use to be a standard on Intlel boards.  I still have an AMD system with FW that's a VIA chipset and never had a problem with that.  
2015/08/20 19:41:28
John T
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
kevinwal
 
Many of us called for sticking to the plan and to move forward and fully implement the vision staked out in Windows 8, but new leadership wimped and basically changed the visuals back to W7, keeping only the fonts, color scheme and icons. All imho, of course.
 



Kevin I agree with most of what you say except for the above. Having been involved with the changes at MS through various generations including the Vista-Win8 period, there was definitely a marked difference here. While I was happy for MS pushing the envelope and developing a hybrid model scalable across devices form factors, management lost sight of a key factor which is what ultimately led to the failure. What matters most to users is the *software* running on Windows not Windows itself. There was a sense of arrogance with the Win 8 management to force all developers to switch to the metro model even through many of us pointed out why the model was flawed and unsuitable as a replacement for the Win32 based desktop API. 
 
I think its fortunate that the new management realized this mistake and changed course. You can't blindly stay the course and expect success when the vision is flawed :) I don't see it as caving but as understanding a mistake and taking proper steps to rectify it. 




This chimes with something I've found myself thinking, using Win 10, which is this: you can really tell that an engineering guy is back in charge. I think Nadella is fairly impressive in lots of ways, and this is the first substantial release on his watch, and I've not been disappointed. I feel they're back on the track MS are good at. Not necessarily innovators, but technically very solid.

Win 8 felt like a panicked reaction to the iPad. MS are better when they don't panic. And in Win10, they've come up with something that actually might make me ditch apple, when I next buy a tablet. It competes in a less obvious, but more effective way, I think.


2015/08/20 23:58:42
Doktor Avalanche
stxx
I'm not using onboard FW.  I have TI chipset FW adapters and an PCI(e) expansion box.  Also I have a focusrite saffire  56 where I mix and that was not coming online either which is also FW.    For some of this, the legacy drivers are needed and not readily supported without a fix.   I also have a lot of other stuff and was generating error messages including some plugins that wouldn't load.  I just wasn't ready for these headaches.  In the end, I know I could have made all this work eventually.... but why?   There are no real benefits as far as I can tell.   I expect Sonar and Win 7 to work for some time to come.   By the time it doesn't I'll likely be ready for a new computer anyway...   My music machine is dedicated to music so I couldn't care less really about many of the other Win 10 features.    Better multitasking certainly is a consideration but that hasn't caused me issues yet so that benefit now goes in the "so what?" column.




Saffire should work great. With thunderbolt 3 on the way are being more generally distributed it should see a resurgence. Under windows 10 the only documented issue with Saffire is some VIA firewire chipsets...
 
Have you tried this?
 
http://us.focusrite.com/downloads/saffire-mix-control-36
 
If you install it make sure you backup/completely uninstall mix control/reboot/install/reboot/reset the hardware.
Make sure you remove the firewire legacy drivers as well in device manager afterwards (roll back to the defaults).
 
Also have you checked for any updated firmware and drivers for your firewire card?
 
Thanks...
© 2026 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account