• SONAR
  • Normalization - recommended max level? (p.2)
2016/01/16 12:57:16
Anderton
Cactus Music
-.02 is for mastering and I don't think Sonars Normalizer can be tuned that fine. For tracking  -1 I think is the closest you get to zero. Not at my DAW so cannot conferm.  



Correct, SONAR normalizes in 1 dB increments. However, note that getting too close to 0 can result in inter-sample distortion on playback after the digital signal goes through the smoothing filter. Use SSL's free X-ISM plug-in to check.
2016/01/16 13:14:50
jpetersen
The slider and +/- buttons move in 1dB steps, but the display shows one decimal point. I can type, say, -0.2 in the edit box, then the slider/spin buttons move from -0.2 to -1.2, -2.2 and so forth.
 
I think -2.0 will cover my needs. I'll go for that.
2016/01/16 13:15:54
Adq
Don't do it => no problem.
Why do destructive editing?
2016/01/16 13:22:16
jpetersen
Cactus Music
If you use the new app it's easy to add a wave editor to the tool menu. 
Then you just highlight the track and it will open in the wave editor for fine tuning. 

That didn't work for me with Soundforge back in 8.5.3 (or earlier?) but I'll revisit that, too. Maybe the feature got some love since then.
2016/01/16 13:27:22
jpetersen
Adq
Don't do it => no problem.
Why do destructive editing?

This has been explained already. Because gain-staging is time-consuming and to ease exchange with collaborating partners.
 
Besides, what gets destroyed? It's 24bit depth.
2016/01/16 13:55:12
Cactus Music
It's easier but still requires paying attention to detail. 
 
Adq-- phooey to nay sayers.. And in what way is your audio destroyed I may ask? And do you not have the original stored somewhere if so? 
 
However, note that getting too close to 0 can result in inter-sample distortion on playback after the digital signal goes through the smoothing filter. Use SSL's free X-ISM plug-in to check.
 
Glad you mentioned this and why I would not trust "some" software to do this job at that level. 
Sonar I stay well away from 0. I'll trust Wave Lab or Sound Forge to that task. Good tip on the free plug in.. got to love free!
2016/01/16 13:55:35
Beepster
Probably not relevant for most applications but I manually set my completely raw/dry guitar/bass tracks to peak around -12db on average when I send them off to clients/collaborators. It'll go above that and below that throughout but if my peaks are generally around -12 it pretty much guarantees a good strong signal that never clips (unless I did something stupid like punch the pickups). Then once sims and effects are applied there is plenty of headroom.
 
The RMS values for that range tends to be around -22. I don't use the "Gain Normalize" feature. I just watch the meters, adjust my gain levels accordingly then export the tracks to new files.
 
Maybe not the most "standard" or "proper" method but it works and I've never had a complaint. I also have started doing it for myself. So once I've finished all my tracking and editing and ready to mix I'll do that, import those files into a brand new project and apply effects/mix with that. It actually makes mixing a lot easier because everything is all around the same volume and as I apply my effects (a lot of which are custom presets I've created) all the tracks increase in volume equally as I intend (or stay the same). My faders can stay close to the 0db mark. My busses remain consistent or I only have to group drag down faders of tracks feeding busses to get desired bus levels (which I find is great at around -6db to -8db which then sums nicely to around -3db in my "premaster" bus... which is enough headroom for slight mastering effects)....
 
and so on.
 
Again... probably not proper but it's the system I've been using just from simply playing around with this crap consistently for 4 years. It is kind of cobbled together from stuff I've read so not totally unique or blind though.
 
I should probably learn about the "K" system or other mixing systems/philosophies to augment it a bit (definitely need to learn more about RMS and LUFS and whatever) but just like my approach to music I think the "Beepster hacko" system may stick with me as an underlying fundamental.
 
You REALLY shouldn't listen to me though. I'm a hack. lol...
 
Check out the Techniques sub forum of this site. There have been a LOT of threads about this type of thing. There a guy who goes by Jeff Evans that is all over the "metering" stuff but of course many many other pros there too (and up here).
 
Cheers.
 
edited: because I typed "FUDS" instead of LUFS.
 
What in the frack is a "FUDS"?
 
lulz... stoopid brain.
2016/01/16 14:55:32
jpetersen
H'm. SSL's free X-ISM seems to be no longer available. Lots of discussions if you search for it, but any forum with a link ends in nirvana. It's not mentioned on the SSL site, either.
2016/01/16 15:00:54
jpetersen
FUDS = Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt System.
Successful marketing tool.
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