Anderton

yevster
We've seen the same mistake with ProChannel in the inspector, which requires mode-switching between the track strip and pro-channel, even if there is enough real estate for both.

 
Can you elaborate? I don't see how there could be enough real estate in the Inspector to fit both the ProChannel and the Console View-style channel strip+master simultaneously, so I must be missing something.

What you're missing is a 4k monitor. On a 4k monitor, the channel strip takes a little over 1/3 of the space in the inspector. The rest is plain grey.
 
Yes, these are not incredibly ubiquitous on the Windows ecosystem yet, but they will be soon enough as they come down in price. Especially when people realize how incredible they are for making music - less time spent scrolling = more time in the zone. 
 
And even without a 4k monitor, there is a productivity advantage to being able to have the two side-by-side. Yes, they will take up a ton of space, but they can be brought up and dismissed with a single key. Pressing "I" to bring up or dismiss the larger inspector is far less distracting than having to drag the pointer to a tab.
 
To be honest, I'd get even crazier. I love the "channel editor" in Cubase that appears wherever the mouse pointer is when you press its shortcut key. In my dream world, there's a Sonar where one can press a shortcut key and pro-channel appears at the cursor location. Another key and the channel strip appears. Another - and the plugin browser - one shortcut key for each plugin type. Another key - and there's the synth rack. No longer is there a need to take the focus away from the track content to look to the side, realize the side has the wrong tab selected, click on the tab, and then look at the module that appears. In my dream world, with one key and zero eye movement, one can just tell Sonar what one wants and Sonar obliges. All the unicorns love it. :D
 

xxrich
 
1. Don't change the user interface however temping it may be (Microsoft should take note as well).
2. If you do #1, give us a magic key that makes it all like the old.
3. Keep up the great work because I don't want to change to another product - but it used to be "I would never change" - I could entertain it now, why not?  (don't answer this it was a rhetorical question meant to amplify (audio pun intended) my concerns:-))
-rich

 
I've used cakewalk products for at least 17 years, thats a pretty long time.  I did not upgrade every year.
 
The jump from the 8.5 producer to the "X" series was really the only overhaul I remember where things really changed.  After spending a few months with the X series, I'd never want to use the pre "X" stuff ever again.
 
If you need to get up to speed on the "x" series through Platinum, spend some time with these free videos:
 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKRYWdEpbc5PgUgvrNuSvVyfv5qkll0qj
 
1)  It doesn't look like they plan on changing the user interface any time soon, and it has been pretty much the same for a few years now
2)  The changes were too dramatic to give the alternative interface button.
3)  Did you just switch from an archaic version of Sonar?

Let me speak from the view point of a relatively new user to Sonar.  I started using Sonar Exclusively when X3 came out.  I bought it the day it came out.  Let me start with some backstory...
 
My first DAW (so to speak) was a program called Musicator.  I bought it for a whopping $69 back in 1998 or so.  I used a Korg 01W/Pro as my keyboard / controller and a Yamaha MU100r and a Roland Soundcard for additional MIDI sounds.  Musicator was revolutionary (to me) because not only could you do direct audio recording, you could also do Step Recording for MIDI as well as direct notation like the more expensive software that I could only dream of affording.  There were no FX bins, you had to use external effects.  There was no easy way to line up audio in time.  Looking back, I have no idea how I even survived. 
 
Then Windows XP came around and ruined my music world.  Musicator HATED Windows XP.  I struggled and got it to work with various patches they supplied as well as having to run it in Compatibility mode.  
 
Then I discovered Sony Acid and Cool Edit, which later because Adobe Audition.  Acid was amazing.  The drum loops were killer.  I loved the interface.  I didn't even discover the MIDI aspects of it until years later.  I used Acid for drums and loops and Audition for audio recording.  I gave up on MIDI (because I didn't know Acid supported it...perhaps earlier versions didn't in all fairness).  It was funny that I gave on MIDI...since I go by Midiboy.  
 
I tried other things like Cakewalk.  (No offense, but I didn't like it...probably because I didn't want to take the time to learn an entire new interface that was 100% different than Musicator).  Someone I knew swore by Cakewalk, and he annoyed me, so that probably had a lot to do with it as well.  I didn't want what he used because he annoyed me. 
 
I loved Audition and Acid together, especially when I discovered RE:wire technology.  I recorded 4 albums with that combo.  Most people were extremely impressed with the recording quality.  Even got a review in Rolling Stone for my first major release.  
 
Then I discovered Native Instruments Komplete.  I bought it, not knowing the depth of the MIDI capabilities of that software.  Guess what Adobe didn't like?  It's MIDI implementation sucked (for lack of a better word).  I found out how to use MIDI in Acid, and it was nice, but cumbersome and it wasn't the most stable at times.  Especially when Windows 7 came out.  Acid Pro requires Dot Net 2.5, which isn't supported in Windows 7.  Sony dropped support for the Acid Pro line and barely supports their Windows 7 compliant 64bit Acid Music software. 
 
I officially in the market for a new DAW again.  Keep in mind, if you are not an Adobe Audition user, it is really a great piece of software.  It's logical.  So my new DAW had to be logical as well.   I tried all the software that had demos.  A friend of mine said to try Sonar X2, and I told him that I didn't like Cakewalk (sorry again) and he said that I needed to try it anyway.  So I did.  
 
As much as I didn't want to, I loved it.  They got the interface right!  It was amazing.  Everything made sense to me.  In fact, the sales rep at Sweetwater told me that several of his customer switched from Cubase to go with Sonar.  Cubase...it's an industry standard in EDM music.  That sealed the deal for me.  
 
When I went to buy, he told me to hold off because the pre-order for X3 was coming in a week or so, and that I should just get that instead.  So I did. 
 
X3 took everything I liked in X2 and made it better.  I loved it.  Recorded almost my entire next album in it.  (With the exception of 2 tracks that I had already completed in Acid / Adobe).
 
The SPlat was released.  I loved their new pricing model.  I have loved all of the updates.  I loved the logical interface.  I recorded my entire next album in that, and am about half way done with my current album in SPlat.  
 
You've got a customer for life.  I, for one, am thankful that your interface changed.  I'm all for change if it makes my workflow better.  
 
I actually used SPlat a few weeks ago to score my first television commercial as well.  Loved the fact that I could load the video in it and score it in real time.  
 

MIDIboy how did you learn Sonar? What did you do to become proficient with it? Obviously you have a good foundation with DAWs did that help?

xxrich
 
1. Don't change the user interface however temping it may be (Microsoft should take note as well).
2. If you do #1, give us a magic key that makes it all like the old.
 
-rich

 I was going to not even bother with Sonar because the previous GUI was quite cluttered after S3. I like the new GUI.  Changing a GUI can be a mistake as far as popularity.  Reason 8 GUI was altered to help new users but so many die hard users stick with Reason 7. 

John
MIDIboy how did you learn Sonar? What did you do to become proficient with it? Obviously you have a good foundation with DAWs did that help?

I think the foundation with other DAWs may have helped, but honestly, the UI is pretty logical, and compares to other DAWs (and improved on most).  Sonar University, YouTube, Various Cakewalk Blogs, UserGroups on Facebook, this forum...have all been invaluable.  So far, most people have been very helpful here on the forum, but especially on the various usergroups I am a member of on Facebook.  Craig Anderton is a pool of advice.  Read his posts.  Learn a lot.  That's how it goes.

Thanks MIDIboy. I thought it might be the way you describe. You took advantage of the resources that were available to you. When X1 came out there was a huge uproar on this forum and some of it was how X1 had dropped so many features of Sonar 8.5. The problem was no one had read the manual which was to some extent CW's fault. They didn't have it ready when they released X1. It did come after a month or so.
 
It turned out that X1 had everything  8.5 had except for the patterned brush and one other thing I can't recall. What the users were complaining about as missing were there they just didn't know how to access them. BTW CW did have a help file with X1 it did cover everything that was new or changed. If they had read it there shouldn't have been any complaints. That was in 2011. Four years ago. Today we have a mature DAW with a new and functioning membership program. Why a thread of this sort is posted these days is strange.  
 
I remember when Sonar was first released. It replaced Pro Audio 9. We didn't have these forums at that time. We did have a newsgroup. There was some consternation but nothing like the uproar over the change from 8.5 to X1.
 
Looking at your post which is a very good one it seems you approached the software with an open mind. I can only hope old 8.5 users do the same, use your example as a way to grasp Sonar 2015.   

xxrich
A well thought out post.  I'll pick a company... Adobe.. photoshop still functions the same way when I originally used it.  Pick another... Word -- those MS bastards :-)  Again, I would like Cakewalk (Sonar) to live long and prosper and to have happy users.  There's a sensitivity that is missing to folks that used the product before the newcomvers were born:-)
LOL
-rich

Hi Rich,

Thanks for your feedback. I understand what you are saying. I think we learned some lessons from SONAR X1, where there was a major overhaul. I think that's why we moved to this new model of rolling updates. Making incremental changes over time so users can learn new workflow. It's always a tough balance trying to make a program that appeals to new customers while keep current, loyal customers happy and in a familiar environment. The reality is that all software evolves and we can implement new features that make workflow better overall. The key is not moving everything around and having users relearn a program they love. It's hard to go back and change the past but moving forward I think we are showing that we are evolving and improving the product at a pace that lets current customers feel comfortable. Obviously, everyone will have their own opinion on that but that's the idea :)
 
Definitely appreciate the feedback.

There's an easy solution, Andrew: Make everything new, but keep it the same 
 
Seriously, though, I do find it much easier to assimilate monthly bite-sized pieces than a yearly banquet. When rolling updates were first discussed I theorized that would be the case, but it's turned out to be true. I feel quite confident that I know how to use everything that appeared in 2015.

I started using computer MIDI back in the early 90's.  My first music software was actually just a MIDI program called The Final Cut written by a guy in Canada.  At the time, I bought the software and MusicQuest 2 port MIDI interface from Bananas at Large.  The software would only see one port of the interface, so I called the guy who wrote the software and he wrote a new version and sent it to me.  Worked like a charm then.
 
I then bought Cakewalk 3.0 (3.5" floppy disc) .  I graduated all the way up to Pro Audio 9...but still only used it for MIDI as I used a Fostex B16 to track on.  Pro Audio 9 was really easy to use for MIDI controlling.  Now...I went from Pro Audio 9 to Sonar X1.  That was quite a jump.  And I must admit...I did get on the forum here and vent a little about how it seemed that X1 seemed to be geared more toward audio than midi....because I couldn't seem to find my way around the midi aspect of it.
 
But once I took the time to learn the ins and outs of MIDI in X1 things began to flow.  I now absolutely love SPlat...and to be honest, I still track most all my audio on my HD24 and mix in SPlat.  But that's what works for me.  But even if I only use Sonar for MIDI and mixing....it's still worth every penny to me.  The MIDI aspect is simply amazing as to what you can do with it.  It's a joy to program midi tracks with all the vast automation you can do with it.
 
And it's still a learning process with me every day.  Because every day I seem to learn something new.  A little trick to do this...another little trick for that.  Yes, at first it was frustrating...not even knowing how to set a midi channel or port (again coming from Pro Audio 9)...but it didn't take long to find my way around :) .  PLUS....99.99% of the people on the forums are SO understanding and helpful and go out of their way to help you solve what ever problem you are having.  (The other .01%....well.....lol.... ;) .
 
My point is.....progress is a good thing.  You just have to take a little time to smell the cake and keep eatin' it.