John T

BenMMusTech
so by all means write nasty comments about my works on Youtube or here

One last thing. I can't let this stand. I have said nothing about your work at all, quite deliberately. Your work's not what's in question. Though you don't surprise me by this attempt at a smear, trying to paint me as someone who's just knocking your efforts. I haven't done that, and won't be doing that.

I suggest you to listen his music... May be you can understand his posts better then. I do

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1022814/FULLTEXT02&ved=2ahUKEwiru-2Ytq_bAhUNQLwKHQeMBvE4ChAWMAZ6BAgDEAE&usg=AOvVaw3npQAkr6UpAmWrXPAYfZsH

Ok hopefully the above link works, please let me know if it doesn't :). Now I've only read through the paper once and only to look for key ideas...but what the paper suggests is if you record at 16 bit or 24 bit ,at 32bit fp processing more rounding errors are introduced as opposed to 64bit fp. These errors whether they're audible is key in the debate. Now, for me like when I record acoustic instruments at 96khz versus 44 and 48 there is a certain air that is audible when recording and processing at 64biffp. It's the clarity of the audio which only 64bitfp can achieve. I believe I've produced enough evidence for those enlightened enough to realize I'm not a raving egotist, just confident in my abilities, that the benefits of 64bit fp audio throughout the signal chain can offer tangible benefits to those like myself who mix ITB. Unlike John, I can also say there are also times when 24bit will be fine. Such as recording a troubadour and all processing is done via analouge outboard gear or you're feeding a signal in and out of the box. Otherwise you will get the maximum benefit of your DAW only if you switch to 64bitfp.

One of the most important things I realized when I started out in research, was asking the right question. Yes, it even takes me time to hit upon the right question. The other part of this debate was the benefits of 64bitfp master audio files. I think that it's pretty much unequivocal that if you mix at 64bitfp and are sending it to a mastering house...the output file should therefore be 64bitfp. If you're sending a fully mastered master to Ifools, it should be again 64bitfp. Now the issue was MP3 and the various distribution methods and file formats. The correct question to ask, to answer whether 64bit fp masters are useful in regards to mp3 and indeed mp4 and probaly AAC3 or Crapple is...what is the bit depth of an MP3 file and the answer is there isn't one. https://soundbridge.io/audio-formats-file-types/ now this article suggests if you're going to create an MP3 it should be created from a 32bitfp master, it only follows that a 64bitfp master would offer even better high fidelity audio. And hence why I can call my soundcloud and my A/V works HD audio, because you're listening in fact to a 64bitfp audio master. There is even an argument to be had, that the soundcloud and A/V work audio is better quality than even my 24bit master wave files I use.

Please let me know if either of the links don't work.

Check and Mate John...and I don't believe you about your alter-ego...she just popped up after your last attempt at a rebuttal. And the quality of my qualifications denotes I'm an expert...it may not be a PhD but an M.phil is still the second highest qualification in academia and therefore can be trusted for expertise and quality.

Ben

azslow3

John T

BenMMusTech
so by all means write nasty comments about my works on Youtube or here

One last thing. I can't let this stand. I have said nothing about your work at all, quite deliberately. Your work's not what's in question. Though you don't surprise me by this attempt at a smear, trying to paint me as someone who's just knocking your efforts. I haven't done that, and won't be doing that.

I suggest you to listen his music... May be you can understand his posts better then. I do

And thanks. I do the work I do for no praise, but it is always nice when someone recognizes the work you do. It took 18 years of work to reach this point. I can probably help most learn my technique now in a few months.

Ben

I'm not as educated about elements of this discussion as some of the more seasoned members on the forum, but what I'm understanding at a very basic level is this:  There is one perspective saying to keep things in the highest (64 bit) resolution possible until final destination.  In theory I can see why that seems to makes sense.  With that theory even saving to 32 bit fp may be better than dropping to 24 or 16 due to the way computers & underlying code handle various elements of numerical storage and precision calculations.  If the workflow from recording to mix to master to final destination can be kept to a single "truncation" then I can see why staying in a consistent highest resolution would seem to make sense.  Again, in theory.  Whether or not this theory is true, and if so whether it can be audibly discerned is another story...
 
Anyway, a few quick comments...

1) Seems to me this debate makes a case for using a mastering bus inside a project.  This eliminates any worry about intermediary bit/export format depths.  Problem solved. 
 
2) Ben seems convinced on his points, and meanwhile people seem to generally agree his mixes sound good.  So one thought might be for Ben to create a brief clip using a 64 bit workflow mix as well as one that does not, and then people can listen for themselves to see if they can distinguish any difference. 
 
Sonic

Yesterday while reading this thread's updates, advice came to mind that a boss had given me 20+ years ago now... "Don't get into a wrestling match with a pig. You are both going to get dirty, but the pig will enjoy it."

mettelus
Yesterday while reading this thread's updates, advice came to mind that a boss had given me 20+ years ago now... "Don't get into a wrestling match with a pig. You are both going to get dirty, but the pig will enjoy it."

I recall hearing a similar expression at work many years ago: "Arguing with an engineer is a lot like wrestling in the mud with a pig. After a few hours, you realize that he likes it." 

BenMMusTech
https://www.google.com.au...3npQAkr6UpAmWrXPAYfZsH

This is a Bachelor Thesis, the abstract is interesting though, I will read it when I get a chance.

John T
Absolutely LOL at being lectured on high quality audio by someone who's putting forward soundcloud streams as evidence of their discernment.
 

when you freeze tracks at a lower bit-depth is all the analouge emulation effects get grainy at 32bitfp and at 24bit depth those sonics disappear into the noise floor.

 
This is such utter babble. Where do you get this nonsense from?
 
The noise floor is the volume of the background noise, which, you know, hopefully is low to begin with. If what you say above has any meaning, then signals above the noise floor, ie: what you're hearing 99% of the time, would have none of these analogue emulation effects. It's an inevitable corollary of saying the noise floor can make them disappear.
 
So you're effectively saying that there's some precious analogue emulation effect that kicks in when a signal is quiet enough to be about to sink into silence, that nonetheless magically imparts character to the rest of this mix.
 
I really hope nobody else is having their time wasted by believing any of this guff.

 
ha ha ha brilliant John, doesn't have a clue whats hes talking about 

lol a 64bit fp file a container file, how did you come to that conclusion, i dont think you truely understand what you're talking about, you're picking up wee pieces of info online without any real understanding of what your reading up on, then your trying to put it together in your mind, using these online degree courses as some kind of foundation to what you're saying is right, absolutely clueless, "yeah man when you freeze at a lower bit depth, like 32 bit fp , all the harmonic distortion, gets truncated down to the lsb" haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 

and you want to "try" and write a paper on this lol, you've seriously got yer work cut out there, my fellow academic.
you're the only person i can think of that gets punted off a curriculum for trying to tell the lecturers and head of faculty what they should and shouldn't be teaching, like you know better lol
 
John T this has brightened my sunday morning up