Thanks for the ideas. So I think I have 2 options.

1.I believe I have midi "Omni" selected. I will set that to channel 10. Also in my midi data track I don't see clean waveforms, there are squiggles when I expect nice triggers so your comments about midi inputs seem to be on target. Where else would I check to ensure midi inputs aren't doubled? I am using USB midi.

2. I will also try one midi track and synth track instead of a synth folder maybe that will make processing more efficient as I am guessing multiple tracks in parallel would require more pre-allocated memory.

Any other ideas?

I think the two posters are encountering different issues.
 
The OP's case definitely sounds like multiple Note On messages double-triggering the synth and causing phase cancellation issues. This can happen if the track input is set to a specific port and Omni channels or All Inputs - Omni, and the keyboard is sending on multiple ports and/or channels or there's a soft synth with MIDI Out enabled that's echoing MIDI input (unusual, and won't be happening with something like TruePianos that doesn't have MIDI Out). Setting MIDI/Instrument track inputs to a specific port and channel is a best practice to avoid problems, but you should also make sure your controller is sending on only one port and channel at a time, unless you're deliberately doing some multitimbral/layering thing.
 
Regarding Michael_TW's "squiggles" in MIDI tracks recorded from an e-drum kit, that sounds like controller messages from the Hi Hat pedal that may not be compatible with Session Drummer. Check the PRV controller pane or Event List view. I recall having to delete controllers from some 3rd-party MIDI files because the Hi Hat controller messages were wreaking havoc with SessionDrummer.
 
 
 
 

It might benefit you by upping your Prepare Using nnn Millisecond Buffers
 
Preferences > Midi > Playback and Recording > Prepare Using nnn Millisecond Buffers
 
The default is 250ms. Try going up in multiples of 250 and see if this improves things.

 
Thanks to everyone for all the feedback, it is much appreciated!!
 

brundlefly
 
Regarding Michael_TW's "squiggles" in MIDI tracks recorded from an e-drum kit, that sounds like controller messages from the Hi Hat pedal that may not be compatible with Session Drummer. Check the PRV controller pane or Event List view. I recall having to delete controllers from some 3rd-party MIDI files because the Hi Hat controller messages were wreaking havoc with SessionDrummer.

Is it possible to negate these commands in real-time by editing my drum map? I guess I first have to identify the commands in the event list. The whole point is to be able to "Jam" to an audio track into Midi so I can play with the drum sounds after and tweak things. We are trying to do the equivalent of email for jamming music.
 
 

Michael_TW
Thanks for the ideas. So I think I have 2 options.

1.I believe I have midi "Omni" selected. I will set that to channel 10. Also in my midi data track I don't see clean waveforms, there are squiggles when I expect nice triggers so your comments about midi inputs seem to be on target. Where else would I check to ensure midi inputs aren't doubled? I am using USB midi.

2. I will also try one midi track and synth track instead of a synth folder maybe that will make processing more efficient as I am guessing multiple tracks in parallel would require more pre-allocated memory.

Any other ideas?

I think the squiggles you are seeing are the Midi notes you've recorded.
 
You wouldn't see a clean audio waveform until the Midi has been rendered to Audio
 
Check for doubled notes by viewing your Midi track in Staff View.
Any doubles will appear either side of the Stalk
 
The best way, IMHO to initiate any soft synth is to simply go Insert > Soft Synth > Session Drummer and from the Insert Soft Synth Options page, put a check mark against:
 
Under "Create These Tracks"
Synth Track Folder
Midi Source
All Synth Audio Outputs: Mono
Enable midi Output
 
Under "Open These Windows"
Synth Property Page
 
Ask This Every Time
 
 
You can attenuate all of the drum tracks from Sessions Drummers Mixer Page - I run BFD2/3 and always attenuate the output by 10dB, again from the Mixer page
 
 

Michael_TW
 
Thanks to everyone for all the feedback, it is much appreciated!!
 

brundlefly
 Regarding Michael_TW's "squiggles" in MIDI tracks recorded from an e-drum kit, that sounds like controller messages from the Hi Hat pedal that may not be compatible with Session Drummer. Check the PRV controller pane or Event List view. I recall having to delete controllers from some 3rd-party MIDI files because the Hi Hat controller messages were wreaking havoc with SessionDrummer.

Is it possible to negate these commands in real-time by editing my drum map? I guess I first have to identify the commands in the event list. The whole point is to be able to "Jam" to an audio track into Midi so I can play with the drum sounds after and tweak things. We are trying to do the equivalent of email for jamming music.
 

 
If it is controllers messages causing trouble, you can either stop them from being transmitted by the drum brain, block them with a MIDI port utility like MIDI-OX before they get to SONAR, or filter them at the track output using a MIDI FX like SONAR's MIDI Event Filter. SONAR itself has no ability to block controllers at input, and Drum Maps only operate on note events. You can disable recording all controllers in Preferences, but that won't stop them from being echoed during rehearsal and recording, and it will interfere with recording sustain and other controllers from keyboards if you ever use them. Stopping them from being transmitted in the first place would be best if it's possible.
 
 
 

brundlefly
SONAR itself has no ability to block controllers at input

Won't the check boxes in Preferences > MIDI > Playback and Recording restrict data coming into SONAR?

Hello All, and thank you for all the advice. I believe I have solved most of my problems that were preventing me from jamming to a random guitar audio track with midi driven synth drums. I think that getting it to sound good will be another journey.
 
For reference, the yamaha dtx502 module has a GM kit, (kit #50) which outputs standardized midi messages precluding the necessity of a customized drum map. Also the HH controller seems better behaved. 
 
I do believe that the echoing had to do with MIDI OMNI being selected in the session drummer input, which i have set to channel 10 to match the drum module. The squiggles I guess are how Sonar represents CC events in the PRV. (they are in fact vertical bars but depending on your zoom level can have a "squiggly" appearance, or so say I)
 
My laptop is definitely underpowered for this type of stuff, but the UR-12 seems to be keeping up with my playback and recording with 1024 ms buffers and 512 samples on the ASIO buffer. I do seem to get audio engine dropouts still but I don't want to increase the latency further. I just have to be careful to take my time entering commands.
 
Thanks for the heads up on the various locations for gain control. All in all, this is a very neat program, I am looking forward to playing with it further. 
 
Sorry AndyB01 for hijacking your thread, I hope you solved your problems as well.
 

Michael_TW
playback and recording with 1024 ms buffers.

I think that's probably higher than needed, and too-high disk buffers can cause other problems. I don't have particularly state-of-the art disks on my system, and have no trouble running high track counts at 256kB. IIRC, the default might even be 128kB, which should work fine in most cases.

scook

brundlefly
SONAR itself has no ability to block controllers at input

Won't the check boxes in Preferences > MIDI > Playback and Recording restrict data coming into SONAR?

Missed this until now. Those checkboxes only affect recording of the different message types. They'll still pass into the track and be echoed out in real time unless blocked at the output by a MIDI FX.