• SONAR
  • Slow bounce, fast bounce ... (p.4)
2015/12/04 10:40:33
Beepster
williamcopper
New image includes Freeze of same material, which results in four audio output tracks; then those four tracks combined in a 'bounce to tracks', fast, 64 bit engine.   
 
 
It appears that the unchecked 64-bit engine fast freeze is the culprit.   The "now time', the selection, the import into Samplitude in each case exactly the same. 
 





So are you saying Real Time and Fast Bounce without the 64 bit engine null? They just don't null with the 64 bit DPE export?
 
That would make sense because the 64 bit DPE processes the audio differently (higher definition). Now try using Fast Bounce and Realt Time with 64 bit DPE engaged then do a null test on THOSE with each other. They should null as well.
 
Is this making sense?
 
Test the FB and RT of 64 bit = OFF with each other
 
Test the FB and RT of 64 bit = ON with each other
 
Don't mix the 64 bit DPE statuses.
2015/12/04 10:41:24
williamcopper
Beeps, let's be clear exactly what you are asking me to do.     And please never again suggest that all this is an attempt to hurt sonar or cakewalk.   Yes I get annoyed at bugs in software I use, but I'm completely disinterested in saying or doing anything for or against some corporate entity that I buy something from.  
 
So, I just did the Freeze (kontakt has four outputs, so that gave me four freeze tracks); then I bounced those freeze tracks into one track.  Posted above; it looks very similar to the 64-bit engine fast bounce, but I haven't tried to phase shift them.  
 
And the OP showed the difference between fast and slow bounce, long ago.    Same material, same set up. 
 
Step by step:  what procedure are you asking for? 
 
2015/12/04 10:46:26
williamcopper
Ok posting and editing in sync.   The OP showed what Beepster calls "FB" and "RT", no 64 bit option checked -- it is clearly and obviously different, but the timing is in sync.    
 
Other posts show the result of Freeze, and then bouncing AUDIO (not midi), into an audio track.  
 
If I understand correctly the only thing I haven't yet done is a slow bounce "RT" with the 64 bit engine checked. 
 
Seems like CW testing should have done all this .. but ok .. one more time.  btw "one click", yes, to freeze and unfreeze . but 5 minutes of wait time in a big project ...
2015/12/04 10:47:31
Beepster
williamcopper
Beeps, let's be clear exactly what you are asking me to do.     And please never again suggest that all this is an attempt to hurt sonar or cakewalk.   Yes I get annoyed at bugs in software I use, but I'm completely disinterested in saying or doing anything for or against some corporate entity that I buy something from.  
 
So, I just did the Freeze (kontakt has four outputs, so that gave me four freeze tracks); then I bounced those freeze tracks into one track.  Posted above; it looks very similar to the 64-bit engine fast bounce, but I haven't tried to phase shift them.  
 
And the OP showed the difference between fast and slow bounce, long ago.    Same material, same set up. 
 
Step by step:  what procedure are you asking for? 
 




I don't know if you are for real or not but if you notice I am currently giving you the exact steps to test this without any opinion on your motives.
 
I posted the step by step.
 
Freeze you track so your single sample is turned into a wave.
 
Export 1) Real Time - 64 Bit engine = OFF
 
Export 2) Fast Bounce - 64 Bit engine = OFF
 
Now import these exports into your project into two separate but identical audio tracks.
 
Press the Phase button on one of the tracks.
 
They should null (no sound). This means the exports are identical.
 
Repeat the whole process except this time turn the 64 bit engine ON both times.
 
Again they should null.
 
 
Okay?
2015/12/04 10:53:25
williamcopper
ok ... as I showed in the OP, part 1 is where i started: they don't null, they don't even look the same, but they do sound the same and they line up completely accurately.  (edit) -- granted this was "bounce" not "freeze" ... but surely those two things are exactly the same -- I'm sure I've read that in sonar documentation -- but even so, I'm doing all four options.   getting tired of this, however.)
2015/12/04 10:57:37
williamcopper
sigh.   and can't anyone see that if one process results in a output that is shifted by 30 ms from another process ... that's a problem?  Regardless of which one is "right"?    And if one process results in an output that has a different audio signal than another process, that's a problem?   Regardless of which one is "right"?
2015/12/04 10:57:38
Beepster
Okay now try something else.
 
1) Freeze your track (which you have already done... right?)
 
2) Now export it twice using the exact same settings. eg: Real Time - 64 bit off x 2
 
3) Import THOSE waves into the project and do the null test
 
If those don't null then something else is going on.
 
And just to be perfectly clear... you are using that SINGLE sample right? Not your whole project?
 
You need to completely avoid any unnecessary complexities/variations that may be occurring in the test material.
2015/12/04 10:58:42
Beepster
williamcopper
sigh.   and can't anyone see that if one process results in a output that is shifted by 30 ms from another process ... that's a problem?  Regardless of which one is "right"?    And if one process results in an output that has a different audio signal than another process, that's a problem?   Regardless of which one is "right"?




If there is a time shift there is another problem with syncing or how you are importing/exporting. That is another issue. Stick to what we are doing so we can get the facts.
2015/12/04 11:13:35
williamcopper
last image from my free cw consulting project.   if this is not clear, then I don't know what else to do.   At my old billing rates, I've given CW around $50,000 of free advice over the last year.    
 
Freeze followed by 64-bit-engine fast bounce vs bounce, Real time, 64 bit engine.   CW nneds to get a decent testing staff, and the cw fanboys need to be a little less agressive toward forum posts that are critical. 
 
2015/12/04 11:26:26
Beepster
williamcopper
last image from my free cw consulting project.   if this is not clear, then I don't know what else to do.   At my old billing rates, I've given CW around $50,000 of free advice over the last year.    
 
Freeze followed by 64-bit-engine fast bounce vs bounce, Real time, 64 bit engine.   CW nneds to get a decent testing staff, and the cw fanboys need to be a little less agressive toward forum posts that are critical. 
 




You know what, I just wasted a bunch of time trying to help you troubleshoot despite the fact I seriously am not fond of you.
 
You are NOT consulting or helping solve "problems". You are misunderstanding a whole pile of stuff, not following instructions for troubleshooting and being belligerent. I do not think CW (or any half decent comapany) would pay for that.
 
These images mean NOTHING. There is nothing really that can be deciphered because the resolution is too low to see the samples/transients.
 
Did you follow my instructions to the letter?
 
Is that what produced those waves?
 
What I CAN see is the time shift. That is some kind of sync/import issue as I've been saying ALL ALONG.
 
Now take one of those waves/clips and use the Nudge feature to move one wave into sync with another (the ones that used the SAME settings). As you nudge them they will eventually sync up and null IF you did this correctly AND are comparing the exports I told you to compare.
 
So even though you are being abusive towards me, Cakewalk and other forum users you are STILL getting help. You have also wasted a good chunk of my morning.
 
Sorry if I'm not all daisies and roses but you are not a pleasant person to deal with and again the only reason I'm doing this is so OTHERS can check this stuff out for themselves and come to their OWN conclusions.
 
If you HAD followed the procedures I laid out for you you would also have a thread to send to Cakewalk support so they could help you sort out any system/hardware issues that may be causing issues.
 
I have other stuff to do now so you are on your own.
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