Ok, thanks beepster.    I too have other things to do ... been about 6 hours on this today.     One final observation: all of this is in a large project, about 48 GB memory used.   After doing the assorted bounces and freezes I was somewhat shocked to see suddenly nearly 64 GB memory used, and the little Performance indicator showing Red alert for memory.    Nothing added, all the various bounces deleted from the project after they were created.  
 
 

48Gb of Ram used?
 
Sorry, there must be something wrong here surely?
 
How many tracks are you talking about? The most any of my projects consumes is about 9Gb (135 tracks, running EWQLSO Platinum plus via 6 instances of Play), multiple Fx, busses, drum maps (for artics)

williamcopper
At my old billing rates, I've given CW around $50,000 of free advice over the last year. 
...
Ex data modeling and design guru, developer of automated test scripts and system test planning.

Words fail me.

williamcopper
Ok, thanks beepster.    I too have other things to do ... been about 6 hours on this today.     One final observation: all of this is in a large project, about 48 GB memory used.   After doing the assorted bounces and freezes I was somewhat shocked to see suddenly nearly 64 GB memory used, and the little Performance indicator showing Red alert for memory.    Nothing added, all the various bounces deleted from the project after they were created.  
 
 

Take a break and do all these tests, as I typed them up, to the letter in a clean/new project. This is pure science and needs to be approached as such which means strict controls, consistency and attention to detail.
 
If your RAM or any other hardware stuff is going wonky that of course could indeed be tainting the results which was something I was going to mention after the initial tests were completed.
 
The time shift could simply be because your system is being maxed out so use a new/clean project. I THOUGHT that was what you were doing (or at least a reasonably clean project).
 
Like I said... it is science and needs to be strictly controlled for accurate results. If you truly want to find out the accuracy of Sonar's export outputs you need to do it in a "sterile" environment first. Then you can expand/extrapolate the experiment to larger/more complex projects which will reveal where the problems may be occurring.
 
Right now we are at "petri dish" level. You were starting from "terraforming" level.
 
It's all moot anyway if the end product sounds good BUT if there are syncing issues that's a problem that needs to be fixed. If there are seriously AUDIBLE varitions that are destroying your work that again is a problem that needs to be dealt with.
 
If we are only getting imperceptible variations then you are just twisting your own nuts in a knot over the theoretical. That is NOT conducive to the supposed end goal of creating/producing pleasing music.
 
Knowaddimean?
 
Cheers.

Bristol_Jonesy,  the project in question is a large one, but it is far from the largest I've used.     The memory size is mostly from fully loaded Kontakt instances for a full orchestra with effectively 3 string sections made up of VSL solo strings, VSL chamber strings, and OT Berlin Strings plus a bunch of woodwinds, brass, and percussion.    It's about 14 minutes long at present, maybe 40,000 midi events.    But this is not a memory issue ... the observation about memory was from surprise after several hours of bouncing, freezing, exporting, and importing, and including running Samplitude and Sonar at the same time.   
 
I don't really know how long I've spent 'consulting for cakewalk', so maybe the estimate above is high.   But it is many many hours over a year devoted simply to finding out how and why Sonar fails at different things.   And, sure, sometimes operator error -- that happens in any craft or profession, but as a consultant you bill for it anyway! 

williamcopper
Bristol_Jonesy,  the project in question is a large one, but it is far from the largest I've used.     The memory size is mostly from fully loaded Kontakt instances for a full orchestra with effectively 3 string sections made up of VSL solo strings, VSL chamber strings, and OT Berlin Strings plus a bunch of woodwinds, brass, and percussion.    It's about 14 minutes long at present, maybe 40,000 midi events.    But this is not a memory issue ... the observation about memory was from surprise after several hours of bouncing, freezing, exporting, and importing, and including running Samplitude and Sonar at the same time.   
 
I don't really know how long I've spent 'consulting for cakewalk', so maybe the estimate above is high.   But it is many many hours over a year devoted simply to finding out how and why Sonar fails at different things.   And, sure, sometimes operator error -- that happens in any craft or profession, but as a consultant you bill for it anyway! 

Do you're tests in a blank project!!! Cripes... you have been doing this in THAT project the whole time? You could have a TON of crap interfering with your exports. Sends, synths, effects, hardware, etc etc etc...
 
If you want to blame Sonar then Sonar can be the ONLY variable (and even then there are still hardware/system/settings issues that could be going on which would need to be ruled out).
 
As a consultant... who is supposed to be educated... and get paid... and you don't grasp this?
 
Sorry to say but... you're fired!

Beepster
 
Sorry to say but... you're fired!

 
Thank you for that anyway!    I feel that it is likely that complexity is part of the issue, but I don't believe CW would look very good as the DAW that requires baby steps and baby projects.    One more factor for any one else trying to track down this real problem:  there are many tempo changes (not all that many, but frequently maybe 10 per second) in this and all my projects.   And I began investigating not out of a sense of fun but out of a need to identify, like the selection issues, like the midi channel issues, just what was causing problems in the use of this tool, sonar.    And if RT bounce, fast bounce, fast bounce with 64bit engine, and freeze, some or all, make different results in ANY project that is a failure in the software.
 
 

williamcopper
last image from my free cw consulting project.

 
And that free consulting is worth every penny.
 

if this is not clear, then I don't know what else to do.

 
I recommend you study up on "the scientific method." Control groups, variables, test conditions, test environments, methodology, etc.
 

CW nneds to get a decent testing staff

 
See below.
 

and the cw fanboys need to be a little less agressive toward forum posts that are critical.

 
Critical posts are accepted in the spirit in which they are given. The reception to your posts confirms that premise.
 
Please observe the following screenshot. Here is the methology.
 
The top track is the original audio track from SONAR recorded at 44.1 kHz. The second track is the result of a real-time bounce in SONAR with 64 bits unchecked. The third track is the result of a fast bounce in SONAR with 64 bits unchecked. The fourth track is the result of a real-time bounce in SONAR with 64 bits checked. The fifth track is the result of a fast bounce in SONAR with 64 bits checked.
 
The bounced WAVs were dragged to the desktop. They were then brought into Sony Vegas, to remove the variable that an error might be compensated for within SONAR and therefore not appear in that context.
 
In the screen shot below, the "10" calibration refers to 10 samples. That is 202.67 microseconds. Your "30 ms delay" is the result of your inability to conduct a meaningful test. The tracks are aligned with sample accuracy and are identical in level. They all null perfectly if you throw one track out of phase compared to the other.
 
If you find out what you're doing that produces the anomalous results you obtain, let us know.
 

 

williamcopper

Beepster
 
Sorry to say but... you're fired!

 
Thank you for that anyway!    I feel that it is likely that complexity is part of the issue, but I don't believe CW would look very good as the DAW that requires baby steps and baby projects.    One more factor for any one else trying to track down this real problem:  there are many tempo changes (not all that many, but frequently maybe 10 per second) in this and all my projects.   And I began investigating not out of a sense of fun but out of a need to identify, like the selection issues, like the midi channel issues, just what was causing problems in the use of this tool, sonar.    And if RT bounce, fast bounce, fast bounce with 64bit engine, and freeze, some or all, make different results in ANY project that is a failure in the software.
 
 

And this post shows you don't understand what is being said or what is going on.
 
I will fully admit SOME of the things you've discovered in your "testing" over the past year were/are actual problems but more often than not it is pilot error or lack of understanding of what exactly was going on. Most of the things you HAVE "exposed" were already known issues that have been reported so you did not uncover anything useful aside from some extra confirmation.
 
In this thread you are just completely misunderstanding what is happening and how to properly test it (or you are being intentionally obtuse).
 
So your claim that somehow you have been testing the software at a professional level and are theoretically owed money is laughable.
 
And even if that WERE somehow a realistic assessment of the situation then you owe MANY "sub-consultants" money from these types of threads for their run around testing/advice/mere presence/etc.
 
THIS is exactly why I do not take you seriously.
 
My time is not nearly as valuable as the time as others who have posted here trying to help you which is the ONLY reason I participated in this thread. Their intellect and good nature are better served elsewhere than trying to explain this stuff to you.
 
Now do the tests, as written and be honest about the results.
 
That is of course if you actually give a crap and aren't just trolling.

williamcopper
 And, sure, sometimes operator error -- that happens in any craft or profession, but as a consultant you bill for it anyway! 

Maybe you do. I don't. If I make a mistake that takes me down the wrong path, unless the company asked me to make that mistake, I will not charge for my errors. Anyone considering doing consulting should realize that this is standard operating procedure. For example if you lose an hours' of work because you didn't back something up, you have to eat that hour, not the company paying you.