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  • The wonderful world of VST instruments (p.2)
2017/09/04 19:05:25
KHARMA
Hi Marshall,
Since I seem to be in a similar place as the one you describe, I'll add some of my thoughts. I was a guitar player for many years but am now very limited in what I can play due to a medical condition. I never played keyboards. In composing music now I've been using MIDI Guitar to play in the very simple (and rough) motifs I come up with, then heavily editing the MIDI before finding VST instruments to play them. Since DimPro and many free or low priced soft synths offer lots of electronic sounds for this, I've been getting into the sample libraries for the realistic instruments I want like saxes, basses, and also guitars, which I need because my playing is so weak.

I've not taken the Kontact plunge yet but have looked at many sample libraries and recently purchased a couple of Ample libraries and also Real Guitar instruments. Here are some issues I've run into, some of which may have answers that I've not yet found:

1. When I use MIDI Guitar, I'm still trying to figure how to successfully and reproducibility record guitar articulations like pitch bend, slide, hammer on. There are lots of settings that I'm working thru and I'm still learning. But without these, my MIDI guitar parts don't sound real. (Even tho much of the MIDI guitar info claims it does this, I'm still not there somehow.)

2. Once I figure out 1, I'm still not sure the recorded part will correctly fire the corresponding Ample articulations, since Ample produces its articulations with proprietary keyswitches. So coding these into the MIDI manually or playing them in afterwards with my keyboard controller (I can do 1 or 2 fingers) seems like my only choices so far. I'd like this to be more seamless but fear it won't be.

3. Every other sample library, Kontact stuff included, seems like it is going to have the same issue. If you buy a sax VST, the needed articulations are sax specific and the key switches are proprietary to that VST. A skilled keyboard player with both hands can play these in using the VST instrument's split keyboard layout, key switches in one area, parts in another. But I don't understand how MIDI Guitar can be used to full advantage if you want to play them in that way.

4. Basses can be an exception if you don't need slapping or stylized articulations. Straight MIDI can work and many of the non-sample soft synths, even DimPro, can produce decent sounding bass sounds in many contexts. An orchestral bass part might be different tho.

Sorry this raises more questions rather than answering them. But maybe others with more experience and similar circumstances will be able to offer input on the above.
2017/09/04 20:07:34
dmbaer
If I'm not mistaken, Kontakt retails for $400 USD.  Native Instruments have 50% off sales now and then.  I don't recall what their Black Friday MO is, but I suspect that's a regular, predictable sale time.  If you can wait for eleven (or so) weeks, you can probably save significant bucks.
2017/09/04 20:35:49
Fleer
Mmmm, that sweet glass harmonium
2017/09/04 21:35:38
JohnKenn
Marshall,
 
+1 to Kontakt. Coin of the realm, and to the other excellent advices already given.
 
For cheap thrills (as in free), one underused and under the radar bunch of gems is with the DSK instruments. Doesn't have the range of expressions or the programming features of Kontakt, but excellent quality sounds to play with if you are learning keyboard. Properly mixed into a song, will pass for some hi end package. Check this out for the downloads:
 
http://www.dskmusic.com/
 
Happy hunting,
John
2017/09/05 05:22:46
bigcatt
For free you can try VSCO2 Community Orchestra. I think if it fairly good for free, but I'm biased... Chamber Orchestra mostly solo instruments.
http://bigcatinstruments.blogspot.com/2017/02/vsco2-rompler.html
 
Here is the venerable Sonatina Orchestra, again the price is right...
http://bigcatinstruments.blogspot.com/2016/10/sound-modules.html
 
2017/09/05 05:22:52
bigcatt
Oops double post.
 
But while I'm annoying people...
http://bigcatlists.blogspot.com/2014/05/totally-free-instrument-by-type.html
 
Also check VST4Free and Bedroom Producer's Blog for freebies.
 
2017/09/05 13:20:24
Marshall
bitflipper
Totally agree that Kontakt is a good investment. A fair chunk of change up front, but it'll actually save you money in the long run as it allows you to take advantage of all the inexpensive libraries that don't run on the free player. The reason they're cheaper is they don't have to include the surcharge they have to pay to Native Instruments in exchange for making their products compatible with the free player.
 
My advice would be to buy Kontakt and satisfy yourself with the bundled factory content for awhile. There's a lot in there to keep you busy for months to come. After you've used it for awhile, you'll identify specific instruments that are missing, could sound better, or be more versatile. You're then in a better position to start looking around for specific products to augment your collection. I would not start with a full orchestral package, especially if that's not your focus.
 
It's easy to get sucked into the world of sampled instruments and become a collector. As a recovering addict myself, I can attest that you can end up with terabytes of stuff you rarely if ever actually use. That glass harmonium sounded so cool in the demos!
 
Try to stay rooted and think in terms of what you'd like to add to your music instead of assuming exotic libraries will fire your creativity. You'll find that most truly useful stuff is pretty mundane: hand percussion, basic strings and brass, vocal oohs, electric and acoustic pianos. And don't lose sight of the fact that synthesizers are often viable and cheaper alternatives to sampled instruments, with no compromises as far as credibility in a recording (e.g. Hammond organs and Wulitzer EPs).


Dave 
 
Your advice is welcome and makes a lot of sense. I hope I have enough sense to follow it :-) I am definitely prone to GAS. Of course, if you throw enough mud at the wall, some of it sticks, but one of the best investments I have made in recent years has been in an all-access Groove 3 pass. 
 
I also hear what you say about the more run of the mill stuff being the most useful. Getting good quality mainstream orchestral instruments is most definitely something that I am after. And synthesizers - yep, I have used VB3 extensively in my recordings in the past year or so. 
 
Definitely erring toward Kontakt. 
 
Bill
2017/09/05 13:57:06
BassDaddy
My only added thought would be that Getting Komplete can be no more than Kontakt depending on sales and promos. Almost VSTi's NI has come out with in the last few years goes in Kontakt or Reaktor so you are not really getting off track with Komplete. You would get Absynth, Massive and FM8 as stand alones. Those 3 are a good foundation for anyone. Since Kontakt and Komplete can be had for about the same price...just sayin'.
2017/09/06 22:46:38
abacab
SampleTank 3.  $199
 
http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/sampletank3/
 
  • Over 33 GB of included sounds
  • Over 4,000 new instruments with 21 instrument categories covering the entire span of acoustic, electric and electronic sounds
  • Over 2,500 drum, percussion and full construction-kit loops played by world-renowned artists
  • Over 2,000 MIDI files in all categories
  • 25 additional SampleTank 3 instruments collections
  • 17 additional Syntronik instruments collections
  • 2017/09/07 07:26:39
    Marshall
    abacab
    SampleTank 3.  $199
     
    http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/sampletank3/
     
     
  • Interesting - I hadn't thought of Sampletank. Sound on Sound describe it as a jack of all trades, but master of none. Is that fair? I do want top quality sounds, which provide a significant upgrade from Dim Pro, which is my go to at the moment.I also see that instruments can't be edited at sample level - I have never done this before anyway, but it might be fun. So I am still leaning toward Kontakt. Opinions welcomed! 
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