• SONAR
  • Could Some Kind Soul Here PLEASE Help Me! (p.5)
2018/05/25 19:59:55
Johnbee58
stratman70
I agree totally with the simple suggestions first. Closer to the mic for more body and I also have to say a lower \different key.
The key of the song has much to do with how it sounds "sonically" as you put it.
But you state reasons why you do not want to change the key. I disagree that all songs have to be in the same key to tell a story throughout the project.
But obviously you don't feel that way. Why you would settle for out of tune notes instead of trying a different key is beyond me.
I also do not think it sounds as bad as you feel it does. 
What jumps out at me the most are the "out of tune" notes mainly at the end of some lines.
 
Feel free to flame me now for crossing a line when I am only trying to help.....


If you cannot give advise without this kind of attitude or resist the urge to "review" the song please do not bother offering.
I'd appreciate it.
2018/05/25 20:43:45
msmcleod
Cactus Music
msmcleod
You might want to take a look at Ozone's Nectar 2 Vocal Production Suite - it's excellent. Everything you need for vocals all in one plugin.
 
It's a real pity they stopped doing Nectar Elements as it was much cheaper, and everything you needed to get a reasonable vocal sound with one click. I upgraded to Nectar 2 VPS to get more tweakability, but I still sometimes use elements during the writing process when I just want quick results fast.
 
M.




 
I'd argue against turd polishing. I think the OP John, is on the right track with thinking about input first. The best recordings are those that capture naturally what is there using suitable gear. This involves a good signal path and a good room. He's almost there, very close.  
 
I like what Pete is also saying, forget the gear, just enjoy your hobby and don't stress yourself trying to sound like something that might not ever happen.
But John might even have all he needs on hand already and at this point if it was me I'd be spending a weekend trying each combination of gear in turn, lay down a dozen different vocal tracks each using the different signal path, pour a drink and sit back and listen. 
 
I can be a real shocker when you swap out your $400 LCD for a Beta 58 and go , wow, that sounds much better! 
( By the way, I traded in the LCD for a TC Voice Live Acoustic ) 




I certainly wasn't advocating turd polishing.
 
Nectar 2 has all the same effects as other posts have recommended (compressor, eq, reverb), except they've got them all together in one plugin. I don't recall it having a turd-polish option ;) well, I guess the pitch correction *could* fall into that category.
 
Sure, you can spend time learning how to use those effects properly over time, but having a bunch of presets and seeing exactly how the settings of those effects change the sound can help enormously, and is an education.
 
Apart from that, having something that is "sounds better" during the writing stage does help you move on with the rest of your song. There's nothing worse than listening to something you're not happy with whilst trying to improve the rest of a song... then you can go back and tweak it, or re-record if necessary.
 
M.
 
2018/05/26 00:24:27
John T
There's an artistic rather than technical thing here. I've not read every post here, so forgive me if I'm going over old ground.

You say you're an older guy, and you say your voice is not what it once was in terms of strength and timbre. Well, ok. There's no reason why that voice can't be an artistically worthwhile and useful voice. It's the voice you've got, so make your peace with it, and perhaps even love it.

This is one of my favourite vocal performances of the last decade. That it doesn't have the power and range of Life On Mars doesn't lessen it one iota. It's the authentic sound of an older guy making art from an older guy's point of view, with an older guy's set of tools. That can be a glorious thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWtsV50_-p4
2018/05/26 01:09:22
Johnbee58
John T
There's an artistic rather than technical thing here. I've not read every post here, so forgive me if I'm going over old ground.

You say you're an older guy, and you say your voice is not what it once was in terms of strength and timbre. Well, ok. There's no reason why that voice can't be an artistically worthwhile and useful voice. It's the voice you've got, so make your peace with it, and perhaps even love it.

This is one of my favourite vocal performances of the last decade. That it doesn't have the power and range of Life On Mars doesn't lessen it one iota. It's the authentic sound of an older guy making art from an older guy's point of view, with an older guy's set of tools. That can be a glorious thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWtsV50_-p4


Wow, John!  That's profound and I agree so much.  The video of Bowie in his older years almost brought me to tears.  Watching it and listening reminded me a hero of mine, Gordon Lightfoot who even at the age of 79 is still at it.  I don't think he records much anymore but he still tours.  I was in awe of his rich voice in his younger years but to hear him today still brings me joy even though it's not what it once was.  He is an inspiration to me as is David Bowie.  I've also seen footage of Greg Lake just a few years before his death in 2016 singing "Lucky Man" and the performance sounded what some might call a bit rough, but he still put all of his heart and soul into it.  Your point is so true.  Age is something we as human beings have to endure, but it is possible to do it gracefully and not let it tear us down.  A person who loves music as much as me (and you and many here) will always have a song in our hearts until our dying breaths.  And it will always feel good to sing it as best we can, even when some of the younger kids start to tell us to "shut up".
JB
2018/05/26 02:10:36
Kev999
Johnbee58
...help me improve the vocal track SONICALLY.  I've tried countless EQ plug ins and settings...

 
To find the best tones for a recorded instrument or voice, I often play back a section on repeat while messing with an EQ. I gradually work my way incrementally down the frequency spectrum boosting narrow bands and try to identify the best and worst frequencies. Finally I boost the good ones and lower the bad ones. The resulting sound may or may not be suitable for the song, but it will usually be an improvement compared to the original signal.
2018/05/26 02:33:09
Johnbee58
Kev999
Johnbee58
...help me improve the vocal track SONICALLY.  I've tried countless EQ plug ins and settings...

 
To find the best tones for a recorded instrument or voice, I often play back a section on repeat while messing with an EQ. I gradually work my way incrementally down the frequency spectrum boosting narrow bands and try to identify the best and worst frequencies. Finally I boost the good ones and lower the bad ones. The resulting sound may or may not be suitable for the song, but it will usually be an improvement compared to the original signal.


I do this.  With both Waves Renaissance EQ and Waves SSL G Channel Strip.  I can never seem to get a satisfactory sound.  I tried the Ren EQ first with 6 mono bands.  I save the settings that I think I will like and my folder of saved settings have so many it's ridiculous!  So the latest attempt is with the SSL channel. I think what's offending me most here is in the midrange, but I've moved those bands all over the place and back again and it still sounds too damned harsh!   In a few days (or weeks), after I've given my ears a sufficient break from this mess, I'm going to try applying Melodyne to fine tune the bum notes.  Hell, I'm even considering trying to re key it, but I'll have to think more on that.  I really feel as if I've reached the end of my rope on this particular project and it's time to move on to something else at least for now.
 

2018/05/26 05:19:00
RexRed
What Bitflipper said is exactly what I would also suggest.
 
Your mic is fine, your room acoustics seem fine too... and your voice quality is great! The reason it is not fitting into the mix is the subtle pitch fluctuations in your vocal. They are intricate and the interesting style is quite meandering and thus not quite on pitch. 
 
Rather than investing in a new mic I suggest getting Melodyne studio 4 or Melodyne Editor. 
 
Once your pitch matches the beautiful electric piano, it will nestle into the mix perfectly and step up front.
 
Then a little bit of compression and volume haggling on each syllable to flatten it out a bit and you are golden.
 
As Bitflipper also suggested, doubling a few choice parts here and there (usually chorus) with your voice is also a nice effect too.
 
Fix the pitch and the song will accept your voice as a lead instrument.
 
Your vocal pitch is fighting the song's tonal center. It will not mix in and step up front until this is corrected.
 
Best
2018/05/26 09:36:54
VinylJunkie
Most people cringe when they hear a recording of their own voice. 
 
Do you know any other people that can sing? Invite them round and record them. That should satisfy you that there's not much wrong with your equipment and set up.
As others have said I think you're being very self critical
2018/05/26 12:11:34
msmcleod
RexRed
Rather than investing in a new mic I suggest getting Melodyne studio 4 or Melodyne Editor. 



For vocals, Melodyne Essentials will probably suffice (and its way cheaper). You only need Editor for polyphonic pitch editing, and Studio for multi-track editing. You can always upgrade if necessary.
 
Kev999
Johnbee58
...help me improve the vocal track SONICALLY.  I've tried countless EQ plug ins and settings...

 
To find the best tones for a recorded instrument or voice, I often play back a section on repeat while messing with an EQ. I gradually work my way incrementally down the frequency spectrum boosting narrow bands and try to identify the best and worst frequencies. Finally I boost the good ones and lower the bad ones. The resulting sound may or may not be suitable for the song, but it will usually be an improvement compared to the original signal.




+1 to this.
 
I came across this video on youtube a while back - it explains it all EQ wise.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdDDVortvRU
 
This guy's got other videos covering compression, mastering etc and all are very well explained.
 
M.
2018/05/26 12:22:53
msmcleod
VinylJunkie
Most people cringe when they hear a recording of their own voice. 
 
Do you know any other people that can sing? Invite them round and record them. That should satisfy you that there's not much wrong with your equipment and set up.
As others have said I think you're being very self critical




This is SO true - I used to HATE the sound of my own voice, but in the end IMHO it's down to self confidence and getting used to hearing yourself.
 
And actually in this context, polishing a turd (sorry Cactus, couldn't resist ) can actually be a good thing. 
 
I'm probably still guilty of this even after 30+ years of hearing recordings of my voice. I've got commercial recordings that I still cringe at (yet other's say it's great), but then some of my home recordings I absolutely love. I think a lot of people are over-critical when it comes to their voice.
 
Johnbee58 - post more of your songs here, hopefully if enough people keep saying how good you sound you'll start believing it!
 
M.
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