Doktor Avalanche

Doktor Avalanche
it's more about the personalities than a discussion around software.

John T
That's definitely true, though I think not in the way you intend to mean.

Well of course if you use half a quote it's not going to be meant as intended is it? (Admittedly I was editing the comment).

Doktor Avalanche
by design IMHO as the points being made here afterwards have little relevance around it, they seem to be more about the personalities and polarization, rather than a calm and sensible discussion around software.

 
Here we go again. Please Avalanche, does it ever stop?
 
 

coolbass

Doktor Avalanche

Doktor Avalanche
it's more about the personalities than a discussion around software.

John T
That's definitely true, though I think not in the way you intend to mean.

Well of course if you use half a quote it's not going to be meant as intended is it? (Admittedly I was editing the comment).

Doktor Avalanche
by design IMHO as the points being made here afterwards have little relevance around it, they seem to be more about the personalities and polarization, rather than a calm and sensible discussion around software.

 
Here we go again. Please Avalanche, does it ever stop?
 
 

Only when the server's storage is full I would presume.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
 
 TBH I seriously doubt that some of the people who obsess about bug fixes actually make any music themselves :) Music is the whole point of buying and using this software, not keeping track of bugs.
Write some songs or talk about how you are making music with SONAR instead, which is the primary objective of this forum. It will be way more valuable to others than obsessing about the software. 
 

I had to rub my eyes to be sure they weren't playing tricks on me when I read this the first time.

With this particular post, you are not representing the company very well at all, Noel.
 
Do you really, truly believe
-- that people buy the software in order to complain about it, but never use it? Really?
-- that a) trying to make music with Sonar, and b) encountering Sonar bugs in the process, are somehow wholly unrelated?
-- that the "primary objective" of the forum is not to talk about bugs, but rather, is to talk about how one makes music with Sonar (avoiding mentioning bugs)? (If so, a lot of folks apparently didn't get the memo, and you'd better take a machete to the vast majority of posts here, because they are about problems users have, to which they seek solutions by coming here.)

I'd urge you to reflect on how this comes across, because IMHO none of it holds water at all, and in fact reinforces the "CW as cult" caricature which you can read about elsewhere here, on Gearslutz, KVR etc. Coming from the CT0, no less -- to whom, I would have expected, knowing about and fixing bugs would be important -- it epitomises the kind of defensive denial which eggs on haters, but more importantly, gives legitimate pause to the more neutral folks who like, or want to like, Sonar, but wish it would work better, or at least as advertised. These are the people who need to be shown that Sonar is worth getting and sticking with.

I absolutely agree with lingyai. It is shocking to read statesments like that from Cakewalk staff and does a lot of damage to the reputation of the company. What is more, it absolutely destroyes trust in seeing improvements in the attitude of dealing with bugs. In the past, I submitetd some bug reports. Some of these bugs were actually fixed. But I take the word of Noel Borthwick and will make music - with other Software. It seems a complete waste time to deal with Cakewalk reading such comments.

 CW reputation? amongst who?
We have a few in this thread that think they speak for the masses I guess.
 
And I absolutely agree with Noel...
 
I have been a CW user since DOS, but no real attempt at learning how to really use it til Platinum. I  didn't come to the forum back then and blame CW, which after all,  was my lack of patience with the learning curve. 

I also agree with Noel.  I think bug problems are brought up, but that isn't the real focus of these forums imo.  Problems sure... (Scook usually to the rescue)...  Look at the forum titles...even though Sonar gets the most hits... but being their flagship...eh, no wonder.  I've learned MUCH more about techniques, answered work flow problems and about what's new, etc, etc.... rather than being made of aware of bug issues.  When I see a Loooooong post with 1/2 of it usually by one member... (every third post or so??)... I usually sign off of it, as it has progressed into useless territory, in most cases.

lingyai

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
 TBH I seriously doubt that some of the people who obsess about bug fixes actually make any music themselves :) Music is the whole point of buying and using this software, not keeping track of bugs.
Write some songs or talk about how you are making music with SONAR instead, which is the primary objective of this forum. It will be way more valuable to others than obsessing about the software. 

I had to rub my eyes to be sure they weren't playing tricks on me when I read this the first time.

With this particular post, you are not representing the company very well at all, Noel.

I guess you are missing the point...
 
Let me explain that based on the video in your signature.
Nice animation, nice song!  Do you think something is wrong with that statement? I do not think so.
At 1:22 I see destroyed video frame. Is it wrong to mention that? I do not think so. Does that destroy
the impression from the song and the clip? No.
 
Let say someone will write in the comment: "I have started to look the clip with pleasure, but at 1:22... man, you had to spend more for debugging before publishing that, that is not professional. I see the clip is loaded 2009! And the bug is still there!". How you are going to react on that?
Do not forget, that Sonar IS the art work for Noel and other Cakewalk people. They know there are some bugs, and there is nothing wrong discussing that in this forum. But the style matters...
 
My answers, based on many posts in this forum and my personal Sonar related project (Universal Control Surface plug-in):

Do you really, truly believe
-- that people buy the software in order to complain about it, but never use it? Really?

Yes, I believe such people exists.

-- that a) trying to make music with Sonar, and b) encountering Sonar bugs in the process, are somehow wholly unrelated?

Finding bugs by occasion can happened, but if you try to make music and there is a workaround, that is not a show stopper.

-- that the "primary objective" of the forum is not to talk about bugs, but rather, is to talk about how one makes music with Sonar (avoiding mentioning bugs)? (If so, a lot of folks apparently didn't get the memo, and you'd better take a machete to the vast majority of posts here, because they are about problems users have, to which they seek solutions by coming here.)

I believe this forum is to help people make music with Sonar. If there are some problems on that way, that is discussed here as well. But that does not change the "primary objective".
 

charlyg
 CW reputation? amongst who?
We have a few in this thread that think they speak for the masses I guess.
 
I have been a CW user since DOS, but no real attempt at learning how to really use it til Platinum. I  didn't come to the forum back then and blame CW, which after all,  was my lack of patience with the learning curve. 

I think that is unfounded. We have people who speak for themselves, but who are not True Believers or otherwise long-time devotees (e.g. have not been with CW since DOS days) and therefore, perhaps having a bit more emotional distance, can imagine that scolding paying customers who note legitimate faults might not be a great way to grow the business. 
 
Also please bear in mind that many of the folks posting here about bugs, actually -- unlike yourself, until recently -- have tried to learn the software. And they are finding problems in the process. No reason they or the problems should be dismissed. 
 
 

azslow3

lingyai

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
 TBH I seriously doubt that some of the people who obsess about bug fixes actually make any music themselves :) Music is the whole point of buying and using this software, not keeping track of bugs.
Write some songs or talk about how you are making music with SONAR instead, which is the primary objective of this forum. It will be way more valuable to others than obsessing about the software. 

I had to rub my eyes to be sure they weren't playing tricks on me when I read this the first time.

With this particular post, you are not representing the company very well at all, Noel.

I guess you are missing the point...
 
Let me explain that based on the video in your signature.
Nice animation, nice song!  Do you think something is wrong with that statement? I do not think so.
At 1:22 I see destroyed video frame. Is it wrong to mention that? I do not think so. Does that destroy
the impression from the song and the clip? No.
 
Let say someone will write in the comment: "I have started to look the clip with pleasure, but at 1:22... man, you had to spend more for debugging before publishing that, that is not professional. I see the clip is loaded 2009! And the bug is still there!". How you are going to react on that?

I would reply that you get what you pay for ;-)   i.e.,that my "product" costs you nothing to "use" except the time spent watching it,  and while I welcome feedback, I didn't create it to please you.
 
Whereas if you were a paying customer of mine ... now that would be very, very different.
 
That difference is relevant here. 
 
I also think it is completely fallacious to compare the very many chronic bugs users experience -- you can read the threads as well as I can -- to a single bad frame in a video.  But ymmv.
 
 
 
 
 
 

I   confess, I did not read this entire post but would like to either add my 2 cents or +1 if someone else already brought this thought up on the updates.
 
I have been using CW since the late 80s and I think it is the best DAW out there.  I was always one of those that would wait a few weeks after a release before installing the new version if there wasn't a huge issue in the release (if you have been around for awhile, I am sure you remember the motor boating effect that plagued one of these releases).
 
With that being said, the updates are coming out so fast now that I think the last update I did was Dorchester using this wait and see strategy.  I think that I need to have more faith in these releases just to keep up with all the changes and goodies that have been added.
 
That is all and keep up the good work bakers,
Jim