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John

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John, I can't understand what do you want to say. People use feedback in music for hundreds years, and nobody die (well maybe few guys actually died because of it, I don't know really). Have you ever seen guitarist shaking guitar in front of his cabinet?

Its feedback but its not a feedback loop. What I have in the post above from wikipedia is about a feedback loop. When you guys talk about using feedback in a delay it has been limited and controlled. Feedback loops are not that. If a guitar player uses feedback as many do its controlled. 

Feedback and feedback loop is the same thing. Loop in the routing creates feedback, that is why it is called feedback loop. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feedback . And nobody says that you shouldn't control it. It must be controlled by track settings, plug-ins and so on.

Thats why I'm saying we are talking about two different things. Because feedback is used does not mean its a feedback loop. What CW has tried to avoid is a feedback loop. Not feedback. And no one has been using feedback for hundreds of years.  

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John T
I'd like feedback loops.
 
Imagine this use case: a vocal, going to a delay with a single repeat. But then I'd like to send that single repeat through, let's say a phaser, and then send the output of that phaser back to the delay. So you get a multi-repeat delay that has more going on than the delay effect alone might do.
 
That's just a for-instance. It's not something you'd generally use in most of your mixing, but hey. Flexibility allows for interesting fringe cases.

Yeah, agree.
If everybody would follow Cakewalk's logic that feedback is evil, we would not have any delay plug-ins with feedback, and everybody would say: "Delay with feedback? No way! It is too dangerous!".

Feedback loops in DSP are quite different from feedback in signal flow inside the DAW. It was never intended to intentionally allow for feedback - that's not even allowed in our normal bussing. In a DSP circuit you mix in a signal from a delay line in each buffer. That's completely different from what is happening here with Patch points. Patch points are routing audio from  one point to another, not mixing the signals. I can't even imagine how we could manage feedback circuits in routing that would maintain delay compensation etc. Today a feedback loop in routing translates to infinite recursion or in other words a hang which wouldnt be very pleasant :) So sorry - feedback isn't feasible.
 

Maybe best start a new thread about feedback discussions, paste the link here to continue the discussion, and get back on topic? Just a suggestion.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Feedback loops in DSP is quite different from feedback in signal flow inside the DAW. 
I can't even imagine how that would be constructed and maintain delay compensation etc. Today a feedback loop in routing translates to infinite recursion or in other words a hang :) So sorry - feedback isn't feasible.
 

Here is how it works in ProTools:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...mp;v=MUb0Ln5GOCU#t=162

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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Feedback loops in DSP is quite different from feedback in signal flow inside the DAW. 
I can't even imagine how that would be constructed and maintain delay compensation etc. Today a feedback loop in routing translates to infinite recursion or in other words a hang :) So sorry - feedback isn't feasible.
 

Here is how it works in ProTools:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...mp;v=MUb0Ln5GOCU#t=162

Great but that is not what a feedback loop is. The signal is not feeding back on itself. The commentator uses the term but it isn't feedback. The vid I listed has real feedback. Have you not heard an amp picking up a mics signal and a loud screech is the result?  That is feedback. What was shown in the vid you posted was a rerouting of the signal but it was not allowed to interact with the original signal. Thats why there was time between the signals.
 
Put what Noel said and what I'm trying to explain together and it may become clear.  

Yes I see what you are getting at - it would appear that they are mixing in the output of one into the other.

Doktor Avalanche
Must resist updating... must resist..

Resistance is futile!

Resistance is feudal....

...just my two cents.

First, thanks to the Bakers for patch points. I've always found other ways to achieve what I want, but my old school upbringing had me used to working with patchbays and mult bays as well the ability to find various patch points to tap...

Now it appears we are getting this equivalent in Sonar! Outstanding!

As to feedback? If I'm understanding the posts I've read here...

I'm not sure I see why it is stated that infinite loop setups are impossible in a DAW... It might not happen as automagically as in the analog world, but I have a feeling the physics could be modeled in some way

Not that I need it, and trying to use my iPad to run Amplitube is the exact nightmare of always having analog feedback problems due to the low grade analog I/o...

If I want to use feedback at this point in time, it's easy enough to mic an amp where I setup a controlled feedback situation as part of a performance...

That said, it sure would be fun if we could add controlled feedback to an amp sim with the ability to enable/disable it...

Ok, now I see where I was wrong. Obviously it is possible to create feedback loop in the DAW, but just as Craig's external method of connection interface's output to input with a wire, or method of using interface's internal routing, it would have latency, and it could not be less than buffer size. But it doesn't mean that it has no sense to implement it. In fact every analog feedback loop have some delay, just because of speed of light.